XPost: alt.home.repair
From: jkj33@gmail.com
On Mon, 07 Mar 2022 15:56:35 +1100, Xeno wrote:
> On 7/3/2022 2:58 pm, Jacob Jones wrote:
>> On Mon, 07 Mar 2022 13:43:49 +1100, Xeno
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/3/2022 7:48 pm, Jacob Jones wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 17:19:58 +1100, Xeno
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 4/3/2022 9:51 am, Jacob Jones wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:37:46 +1100, Bob F
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/3/2022 12:59 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 07:49:46 +1100, Bob F
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 3/3/2022 12:03 PM, micky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:47:28 -0600, Paul in
>>>>>>>>>> Houston
>>>>>>>>>> TX wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> micky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is
>>>>>>>>>>>> driving the
>>>>>>>>>>>> wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and
>>>>>>>>>>>> today, for
>>>>>>>>>>>> example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine
>>>>>>>>>>>> went briefly
>>>>>>>>>>>> to 5500, the apparent red line. For several seconds was at
>>>>>>>>>>>> 5000 and
>>>>>>>>>>>> even longer at 4500.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I did that exiting the freeway in my last Toyota.
>>>>>>>>>>> It sucked a valve into the combustion chamber and broke a
>>>>>>>>>>> piston rod
>>>>>>>>>>> destroying the engine. I gave it away to a needy person who
>>>>>>>>>>> installed a
>>>>>>>>>>> used engine and ended up with a nice car.
>>>>>>>>>> So you're suggesting I shouldn't do it?
>>>>>>>>>> Unless your freeway was going very steeply down hill, I would
>>>>>>>>>> think you
>>>>>>>>>> came close to the redline even less time than I have!!
>>>>>>>>>> This is a 2021 or 2022 Citroen C-3. A rental with only 9000
>>>>>>>>>> miles on
>>>>>>>>>> it, so it must be new. I think I bought the insurance, but
>>>>>>>>>> regardless,
>>>>>>>>>> I don't want to hurt the car. mAYBE I shouldnt go lower than
>>>>>>>>>> 3rd gear
>>>>>>>>>> and rely on the brakes for anything more.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I
>>>>>>>>> approached his lot, and immediately told me that brakes were a
>>>>>>>>> lot cheaper to replace than engine and clutch.
>>>>>>>> Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the brakes
>>>>>>>> overheat and you can't stop.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He was right.
>>>>>> No he was not when you change down before there will be any red
>>>>>> lining.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Reving to high speeds to slow down can quickly damage your engine.
>>>>>> But changing down so you don't redline doesnt.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That should not be general practice if you care about your
>>>>>>> vehicle.
>>>>>> That's wrong too. Doing it properly does produce less brake wear.
>>>>>
>>>>> So does driving that saves wear and tear on both brakes and clutch.
>>>>> If a driver has a need to brake hard, either way, maybe it's time to
>>>>> re-learn how to drive.
>>
>>>> We aren't talking about braking hard, we are talking how to descend
>>>> steep hills.
>>
>>> No,
>> Fraid so.
>>
>>> *we* are talking about using engine braking as opposed to using the
>>> service brakes. You shouldn't be using the engine to slow down on a
>>> hill, that's what the service brakes are for.
>> Wrong with a long steep descent.
> You slow down *before* you begin your descent.
What I said long ago.
> Once into the descent at an *appropriate speed*, you only use the
> service brakes to maintain the rate of descent, the engine braking
> taking care of the rest.
You have that backwards.
> It's obvious you have never driven trucks.
There you go again, face down in the mud, as always.
And we aren't discussing trucks, we are discussing a medium sized SUV.
>>> What you can, and should, do is use engine brakingto maintain a
>>> steady speed down a steep hill.
>> Doesn't have to be a steady speed when the slope changes a lot.
> Again, that's when you *briefly* apply the service brakes.
Or change down initially and don't need the brakes if it is a long steep
descent.
>>> That is the precise scenario where your service brakes can overheat
>> What I said long ago.
>>> and that is to be avoided at all costs if brake fade is to be avoided.
>> Whether you get brake faded depends on how long the steep descent
>> goes for.
> Whether you get brake fade depends on your approach to the descent;how
> you manage your speed, both when entering and during the descent.
But you don't get brake fade with a modern car like that unless it is a
long steep descent.
>>> If needed, should the vehicle still speed up, an occasional
>>> application of the service brakes is advised but no more than is
>>> required to maintain a steady speed.
>> No need for a steady speed. Fine if it varies for hairpin bends etc.
> Again, you appear never to have driven trucks or,for that matter, any
> heavy vehicle.
Then you need new glasses bad and that is irrelevant to
your silly line about a constant speed. Only a fool like you
would maintain a constant speed in a truck or heavy vehicle,
at the speed it has to do the worst hairpin bend at and there
is no way to know what speed that will be in advance anyway.
>>> That way you neither damage your engine
>> You don't need a steady speed to avoid damaging the engine,
>> just don't exceed the redline.
>>> or needlessly overheat the service brakes.
>> What I said long ago.
>>>>>>> If your brakes fail on a steep hill, OK. But doing that rather
>>>>>>> than keeping your speed below the over-rev point going down hills
>>>>>>> is just stupid. Use your brakes for exiting the freeway,
>>>>>>> definitely better than over-reving.
>>
>>>>>> But perfectly possible to not over rev in that situation.
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