XPost: alt.home.repair
From: xenolith@optusnet.com.au
On 7/3/2022 4:07 pm, Jacob Jones wrote:
> On Mon, 07 Mar 2022 15:56:35 +1100, Xeno wrote:
>
>> On 7/3/2022 2:58 pm, Jacob Jones wrote:
>>> On Mon, 07 Mar 2022 13:43:49 +1100, Xeno
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 4/3/2022 7:48 pm, Jacob Jones wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 17:19:58 +1100, Xeno
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4/3/2022 9:51 am, Jacob Jones wrote:
>>>>>>> On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 09:37:46 +1100, Bob F
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/3/2022 12:59 PM, Jacob Jones wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 04 Mar 2022 07:49:46 +1100, Bob F
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/3/2022 12:03 PM, micky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:47:28 -0600, Paul
>>>>>>>>>>> in Houston
>>>>>>>>>>> TX wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> micky wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is red-lining worse, better, or the same when the engine is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> driving the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wheels as when the wheels are driving the engine?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I use the engine to slow down when going down hill, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> today, for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> example, I put the ATransmission into 2nd and then engine
>>>>>>>>>>>>> went briefly
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to 5500, the apparent red line. For several seconds was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> at 5000 and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> even longer at 4500.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I did that exiting the freeway in my last Toyota.
>>>>>>>>>>>> It sucked a valve into the combustion chamber and broke a
>>>>>>>>>>>> piston rod
>>>>>>>>>>>> destroying the engine. I gave it away to a needy person who
>>>>>>>>>>>> installed a
>>>>>>>>>>>> used engine and ended up with a nice car.
>>>>>>>>>>> So you're suggesting I shouldn't do it?
>>>>>>>>>>> Unless your freeway was going very steeply down hill, I
>>>>>>>>>>> would think you
>>>>>>>>>>> came close to the redline even less time than I have!!
>>>>>>>>>>> This is a 2021 or 2022 Citroen C-3. A rental with only 9000
>>>>>>>>>>> miles on
>>>>>>>>>>> it, so it must be new. I think I bought the insurance, but
>>>>>>>>>>> regardless,
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't want to hurt the car. mAYBE I shouldnt go lower
>>>>>>>>>>> than 3rd gear
>>>>>>>>>>> and rely on the brakes for anything more.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A motorcycle shop owner heard me downshift to slow as I
>>>>>>>>>> approached his lot, and immediately told me that brakes were a
>>>>>>>>>> lot cheaper to replace than engine and clutch.
>>>>>>>>> Rather a silly comment if you end up crashing because the
>>>>>>>>> brakes overheat and you can't stop.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> He was right.
>>>>>>> No he was not when you change down before there will be any red
>>>>>>> lining.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Reving to high speeds to slow down can quickly damage your engine.
>>>>>>> But changing down so you don't redline doesnt.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That should not be general practice if you care about your
>>>>>>>> vehicle.
>>>>>>> That's wrong too. Doing it properly does produce less brake wear.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So does driving that saves wear and tear on both brakes and
>>>>>> clutch. If a driver has a need to brake hard, either way, maybe
>>>>>> it's time to re-learn how to drive.
>>>
>>>>> We aren't talking about braking hard, we are talking how to
>>>>> descend steep hills.
>>>
>>>> No,
>>> Fraid so.
>>>
>>>> *we* are talking about using engine braking as opposed to using the
>>>> service brakes. You shouldn't be using the engine to slow down on a
>>>> hill, that's what the service brakes are for.
>
>>> Wrong with a long steep descent.
>
>> You slow down *before* you begin your descent.
>
> What I said long ago.
>
>> Once into the descent at an *appropriate speed*, you only use the
>> service brakes to maintain the rate of descent, the engine braking
>> taking care of the rest.
>
> You have that backwards.
You don't appear to have it at all.
>
>> It's obvious you have never driven trucks.
>
> There you go again, face down in the mud, as always.
>
> And we aren't discussing trucks, we are discussing a medium sized SUV.
Techniques are the same, just way more critical with a fully loaded truck.
>
>>>> What you can, and should, do is use engine brakingto maintain a
>>>> steady speed down a steep hill.
>
>>> Doesn't have to be a steady speed when the slope changes a lot.
>
>> Again, that's when you *briefly* apply the service brakes.
>
> Or change down initially and don't need the brakes if it is a long steep
> descent.
You appear to be somewhat clueless.
>
>>>> That is the precise scenario where your service brakes can overheat
>>> What I said long ago.
>
>>>> and that is to be avoided at all costs if brake fade is to be avoided.
>
>>> Whether you get brake faded depends on how long the steep descent
>>> goes for.
>
>> Whether you get brake fade depends on your approach to the
>> descent;how you manage your speed, both when entering and during the
>> descent.
>
> But you don't get brake fade with a modern car like that unless it is a
> long steep descent.
Only one thing I can say in response to that - BULLSHIT!
>
>>>> If needed, should the vehicle still speed up, an occasional
>>>> application of the service brakes is advised but no more than is
>>>> required to maintain a steady speed.
>
>>> No need for a steady speed. Fine if it varies for hairpin bends etc.
>
>> Again, you appear never to have driven trucks or,for that matter, any
>> heavy vehicle.
>
> Then you need new glasses bad and that is irrelevant to
> your silly line about a constant speed. Only a fool like you
> would maintain a constant speed in a truck or heavy vehicle,
> at the speed it has to do the worst hairpin bend at and there
> is no way to know what speed that will be in advance anyway.
You are just trying to confuse the situation.
>
>>>> That way you neither damage your engine
>
>>> You don't need a steady speed to avoid damaging the engine,
>>> just don't exceed the redline.
>
>>>> or needlessly overheat the service brakes.
>
>>> What I said long ago.
>
>>>>>>>> If your brakes fail on a steep hill, OK. But doing that rather
>>>>>>>> than keeping your speed below the over-rev point going down
>>>>>>>> hills is just stupid. Use your brakes for exiting the freeway,
>>>>>>>> definitely better than over-reving.
>>>
>>>>>>> But perfectly possible to not over rev in that situation.
--
Xeno
Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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