XPost: comp.mobile.android, misc.phone.mobile.iphone   
   From: xenolith@optusnet.com.au   
      
   On 15/5/2022 4:17 am, Andy Burnelli wrote:   
   > Xeno wrote:   
   >   
   >>> On _that_ topic alone, have you ever seen a typical rotor "gouge" spec?   
   >>   
   >> Can't recall.   
   >   
   > Don't worry. I knew the answer before I asked it of you.   
   >   
   >> I just looked at the rotor gouge and, if *I* considered it too deep,   
   >> into the bin it went.   
   >   
   > I understand.   
   > I know all about what people do.   
   >> You have to realise that *any gouge* reduces the surface area for   
   >> braking so if it doesn't machine out, it will take ages for the pads   
   >> to fully bed, if at all, and will lead to unbalanced braking if the   
   >> gouges on each side of the car aren't balanced.   
   >   
   > It's a basic question I ask of everyone who claims to measure rotors.   
   > They never even _know_ what the gouge spec is.   
   >   
   >>> I have.   
   >>> That spec is often hard to find, but when found, it's shocking (to me).   
   >>> The first is that the spec allows _huge_ gouges (imho).   
   >>   
   >> I use my own judgement.   
   >   
   > Trust me, I know what you're going to say on rotors before you do.   
   >   
   > So don't worry.   
   > I expected it.   
   >   
   >>> And the second is I've never seen a rotor _that_ gouged.   
   >>   
   >> I have seen terribly gouged rotors - and I've binned them.   
   >   
   > I have only replaced my own rotors (and that of my family), where I   
   > haven't yet had to bin a rotor for anything other than for it being too   
   > thin.   
   >   
   > BTW, you got the reason rotor thickness matters wrong too, but that's OK.   
   > Everyone gets that wrong too, so I won't hold it against you.   
   >   
   >>> No big deal. I'd junk any rotor that doesn't meet spec w/o a second   
   >>> thought   
   >>> since a rotor is a safety item that costs only about $15 to $35 per   
   >>> wheel.   
   >>   
   >> Pre-cisely!   
   >   
   > As I said, there is only one "proper" way to decide if a rotor needs to   
   > be replaced, and it's _not_ what Steve said (he said every pad   
   > replacement or every other pad - but that's just bullshit from people   
   > who talk bullshit).   
   >   
   > Rest assured I know a _lot_ of morons out there say exactly what Steve   
   > does but when you ask them the kinds of questions I've been asking you,   
   > they fail the test instantly.   
   >   
   >>> My question to you are the two above:   
   >>> a. Have you seen how (seemingly) huge a gouge has to be to fail spec?   
   >>   
   >> Again, I use my own judgement.   
   >   
   > I know. I knew that before I asked you.   
   > Next time you work on rotors, ask the manufacturer for the spec.   
   >   
   > My prediction is you'll be shocked at how huge a gouge has to be to fail.   
      
   The only spec, ultimately, that matters is the minimum thickness spec.   
   If the rotor won't clean before minimum thickness is reached, any gouge   
   spec becomes irrelevant. I'm not going to put a machined rotor back on a   
   customer's car if *gouges* can still be seen on it - regardless of what   
   any gouge spec says.   
   >   
   >>> b. How often have _you_ seen a rotor gouged enough to fail that spec?   
   >>   
   >> I have had heaps of rotors, and drums, fail my judgemental spec.   
   >   
   > If they meet specs, I generally re-use them (unless they're for someone   
   > else, and then, in that case, I often replace good rotors anyway, since   
   > I don't know what kind of maintenance they will do in the future).   
      
   *I rest my case*! My brake work has always been for *customers* and, as   
   such, I place a high standard on it. You want to reuse a rotor I deem   
   too gouged, you will find yourself doing the job for *I* won't touch it.   
   It's called *responsibility*, perhaps you've heard of the concept?   
   >   
   > Luckily, in the USA, as long as you meet or exceed OEM specs, we can't   
   > get an unsafe rotor, and we can't get an unsafe brake pad, nor an unsafe   
   > tire (notwithstanding one-of-a-kind fuckups like the Firestone one of   
   > course).   
   >   
   > But we can pay $50 per axle for crappy pads (e.g., EE) and we can pay   
   > $50 each for rotors (there are no crappy rotors), and we can pay $200   
   > for crappy tires (there are no unsafe tires), etc., if we don't know   
   > what we're doing (or, more to the point, if we think "we get what we pay   
   > for").   
   >   
   > In my humble experience, typical sedan & SUV rotors are something like   
   > $15 to $35 each, and typical FF or GG or even HH pads are about the same   
   > per axle, and V-rated appropriate load index tires are almost always   
   > somewhere around $75 to $100 each (depending of course on the size &   
   > type of tire).   
      
      
   --   
   Xeno   
      
      
   Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.   
          (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)