XPost: alt.home.repair   
   From: xxx@yyy.zzz   
      
   On 2022-12-13 02:02:26 +0000, Bob F said:   
      
   >> Hooking up to a 5# carbon dioxide tank (either refilling the canisters   
   >> or just hooking the five pound tank directly to a sodastream machine)   
   >> drops that easily in half, and maybe even to about a third at a bit over   
   >> 10 cents per liter, given the cost is $31 to have a 5# CO2 tank swapped   
   >> out at Praxair and just under $30 to have that 5# CO2 tank refilled at   
   >> Carbonics.   
   >   
   > At my supplier, a 20# tank swap is way lower per pound than 5#.   
   > Something like $35 for the 20# and $25 for the 5#.   
      
   I don't disagree that the welding shops swap out the 20# tanks more   
   frequently than 5# tanks so there are economies of scale for them.   
      
   I called today for prices on the larger sizes where it's huge the   
   difference per pound of liquid carbon dioxide when refilled at Carbonics.   
     Carbonic Refills = $27+tax/5#, $30+tax/10# & $32+tax/20#   
     Praxair Swaps = $30.90/5# & $49.14/20# (includes hazmat fee & taxes)   
      
   Praxair won't touch the 10 pound cylinders, and those are steel prices,   
   where I don't know why their charge is different for aluminum cylinders.   
      
   But you can tell that for refilling, the setup is where all the cost is.   
   At about $35 (taxed) for 20 pounds it's only about 3.5 cents per liter.   
      
   >> The dry ice is the cheapest, surprisingly, assuming you don't have to   
   >> overbuy it, but you likely have to get five pounds, so you kind of need   
   >> about five canisters to fill up at a time to make the waste worth it.   
   >   
   > If you put a pound into a 14.5 oz tank, the tank will probably vent a   
   > significant amount.   
      
   I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. I'd only put 14.5 ounces maximum of crushed   
   dry ice into the canister. But in calculating costs, there will be wastage   
   from travel and storage and preparation, so I assume a pound is consumed.   
      
   The canister has multiple separate safety over venting features, one of   
   which is the 10 mm vent over pressure valve but there is also a tiny ~1/2   
   mm hole drilled in the lower part of the M18x1.5 male threads which would   
   vent whenever you unscrew the valve to prevent the valve from shooting out   
   like a bullet if you forgot to loosen the 10mm overpressure valve.   
      
   There is also a black rubber o-ring in the M18x1.5 male threads but that's   
   likely more to prevent leakage than a safety feature.   
      
   >> In terms of convenience, it seems the most convenient method is to just   
   >> attach the 5# liquid carbon dioxide tank to the back of the sodastream,   
   >> where my wife would kill me with that tank in the kitchen so I have to   
   >> move it to the garage or basement but other than that, it will work just   
   >> fine.   
   >   
   > Or, just refill your sodastream tanks in the garage from your big tank   
   > with a suitable adapter. Put them in the freezer for a couple hours.   
   > Then take it quickly to the garage, hook up the tank to your refill hose   
   > on the upside down or siphon CO2 tank and open the valves to each. Close   
   > the valves, disconnect the hose from the filled tank and put it back in   
   > the sodastream.   
      
   Yes. Both methods work. Each has advantages & disadvantages.   
      
   The advantage of refilling the 14.5 ounce canisters using the liquid carbon   
   dioxide tank with the eductor (siphon) tube is that everything sits   
   upright, and the disadvantage of the tank that I have (which has no siphon   
   tube) is that I have to tilt it at a steep angle on an upside down chair   
   (or strap it in upside down). But that's not a big deal once I have a jig.   
      
   The advantage of connecting the big tanks directly to the sodastream is you   
   hook it up once, and then you use from five to twenty canisters' worth of   
   gas (carbonating 45 liters per each) without needing to touch anything.   
      
   At an average of a liter of bubbly a day, a 20# CO2 tank will last 22 times   
   45 liters, which is just under three years of bubbly from the big tank. For   
   the smaller 5# tank, it's only about 250 days but that's convenient enough.   
      
   The disadvantage of connecting the liquid C02 tanks directly to the   
   sodastream are that you have to hide the tank and hoses if you leave it in   
   the kitchen - or you have to use downstairs or into the garage otherwise.   
      
   >> Still, I'd like to find a way to insert a tiny 1/10 mm nozzle into a 1   
   >> liter coca cola bottle cap so that I could test out replicating the $100   
   >> sodastream for the price of that one thin nozzle & quick on/off valve.   
   >   
   > I bet the sodastream nozzle is way smaller than that.   
      
   I will call PepsiCo to try to find out how small the nozzle is.   
   https://support.sodastream.com/hc/en-us 800-763-2258   
      
   BTW, I found out that almost every size from sodastream is overcounted.   
   In the 1 L SodaStream bottle you only carbonate 840 ml.   
   In the 0.5 L SodaStream bottle you only carbonate 450 ml.   
   In the 0.8 L SodaStream glass carafe you only carbonate 620 ml.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)