XPost: comp.mobile.android, comp.mobile.ipad   
   From: nospam@nospam.invalid   
      
   In article , Jolly Roger   
    wrote:   
      
   > >> >> Depends very much on the circumstance. What if the speed limit is   
   > >> >> 55?  What if there are multiple flows of traffic - some obeying   
   > >> >> the speed limit, and others not? Very often, I'll be driving with   
   > >> >> cruise control set to 55-60 in the middle lane of a 3-lane highway   
   > >> >> where the posted speed limit is 55, where most of the cars around   
   > >> >> me are doing similar speeds (again, around 55-60), and a group of   
   > >> >> cars (usually anywhere from 2 to 6 cars) will come up from behind   
   > >> >> driving significantly faster than 55 (sometimes 15-25 miles faster   
   > >> >> (yes: 75-85 mph in a 55), speeding much faster than the traffic   
   > >> >> around me), usually with one or two idiots leading the pack in   
   > >> >> some sort of apparent race to see who can get wherever faster.   
   > >> >> Inevitably one or more drivers in the speeding group gets upset   
   > >> >> that the drivers in my group are "in their way", usually in   
   > >> >> various lanes (almost never just the left lane), and start   
   > >> >> tailgating and using aggressive and fast lane switching maneuvers   
   > >> >> in all three lanes, often making double-lane-switches without   
   > >> >> signalling within a few feet of other cars and pulling other   
   > >> >> dangerous stunts to get past these "slow" drivers that are   
   > >> >> imposing such an inconvenience on their little racing game as   
   > >> >> quickly as possible, safety be damned. In such a situation, I'd   
   > >> >> typically like to gradually decrease my speed, and make safe lane   
   > >> >> changes to the right to get as far away from the idiots as   
   > >> >> possible, if and when such opportunities safely become available.   
   > >> >> Unfortunately, very often, due to the tailgating aggressive   
   > >> >> behavior of the speeding group, there isn't a good opportunity to   
   > >> >> do that until *after* they've finished making their dangerous   
   > >> >> maneuvers and sped on past. I'm probably one of the last people   
   > >> >> who will just gleefully increase my speed to match the speed of   
   > >> >> the idiot group when I see them coming in my rear view mirror -   
   > >> >> especially if I'm not in the passing lane and I'm already at or   
   > >> >> exceeding the posted limit, and the cars around me are doing the   
   > >> >> same speed as me. Nor am I going to quickly or dangerously make   
   > >> >> lane changes just to get out of their way to make their dangerous   
   > >> >> behavior easier for them to continue. Safety comes first, and I   
   > >> >> naturally value the safety of the well-behaved drivers around me   
   > >> >> more than speeding jackasses. BTW, this isn't a cherry-picked   
   > >> >> example situation - it happens *all* *the* *time* on American   
   > >> >> highways.   
   > >> >   
   > >> > What happens on grossly underposted limited access highways is that   
   > >> > drivers like Jolly here form packs that impede flow.   
   > >>   
   > >> I'd like to understand your logic better. Are you suggesting that   
   > >> every 55 MPH highway in America us grossly under posted, or just the   
   > >> ones on which I personally travel?   
   > >   
   > > when traffic normally flows faster than the posted limit, you can be   
   > > certain the posted speed limit is wrong.   
   >   
   > As I said above, traffic on these roads normally follows the speed limit   
   > (roughly 55-60 mph).   
      
   no, what you said above is you drive 55-60 in the middle lane, with   
   other vehicles passing on either side of you.   
      
   that means you are going slower than the 85th percentile and/or in the   
   wrong lane.   
      
   > It's the all-important racers who form packs going   
   > 15-20 mph faster than everyone else who are not the norm and cause   
   > problems for the rest of the drivers on the road. I find it telling that   
   > while I described a lot of dangerous behaviors above, you guys seem to   
   > want to ignore all of that and focus on one thing: "speed limits are too   
   > slow". I wonder what that says about your own personal driving habits...   
      
   wonder all you want. it has nothing to do with anyone's driving habits.   
      
   go obtain a speed survey for the roads in question and you will find   
   that they are underposted.   
      
   > >> Are you suggesting that those exceeding   
   > >> posted speed limits do not form packs? Also, how do you know the road   
   > >> conditions of the highways I typically travel? Are you secretly   
   > >> following me, or do you have telepathy and know which highways I travel?   
   > >> Please explain.   
   > >   
   > > the situation you describe is not common, which indicates that it's   
   > > not the roads or conditions that are the problem.   
   >   
   > The situation I describe happens a lot in two different cities I   
   > frequent. You obviously aren't in a position to say what is common in my   
   > neck of the woods.   
      
   your neck of the woods is not significantly different than any other   
   neck of the woods.   
      
   urban highways, which is what you're describing, have similar traffic   
   patterns, just about everywhere. there might be minor differences but   
   nothing that is significant.   
      
   > >> > Faster drivers then go from pack to pack, neededing to find a way   
   > >> > through each pack, often doing a Claybrook weave.   
   > >>   
   > >> So the dangerous behavior I describe above is necessary in your view?   
   > >> Strange. Do you prioritize speed over safety?   
   > >   
   > > the safest speed is that of prevailing traffic flow (85th percentile to   
   > > be exact).   
   >   
   > 1. Prevailing traffic flow, as I initially described, is 55-60 MPH on on   
   > these 55mph highways I travel.   
      
   not when there are cars passing you on either side at up to 30 mph   
   faster. those are *your* numbers.   
      
   > 2. I described a lot of dangerous behavior above, and you are trying to   
   > ignore all of that and make this into a "speeding vs. no speeding"   
   > argument. Fail.   
      
   the reason why people are passing you and other cars is because the   
   road is underposted and/or you are going too slow.   
      
   in other words, the dangerous behavior is caused by the slower traffic,   
   of which you are a part.   
      
   > > those driving slower are a hazard, causing the dangerous behavior you   
   > > describe.   
   >   
   > So it's not the fault of the drivers  who are making the dangerous   
   > maneuvers.   
      
   it's the fault of the slower traffic.   
      
   also, what the other vehicles are doing are not necessarily dangerous   
   and your approval of what they do or not do is not a factor in whether   
   it's a dangerous maneuver. just because you don't like something   
   doesn't mean it's dangerous.   
      
   > The world *makes* them behave that way. Got it. Again, I   
   > have to wonder what this says about your own personal driving habits...   
      
   wonder all you want. it has nothing to do with anyone's driving habits.   
      
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
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