From: thetibetanmonkey@gmail.com   
      
   On Thursday, December 18, 2014 12:55:56 PM UTC-5, Harry K wrote:   
   > On Thursday, December 18, 2014 1:26:28 AM UTC-8, Wise TibetanMonkey, Most   
   Humble Philosopher wrote:   
   > > On Thursday, December 18, 2014 12:48:13 AM UTC-5, Alan Baker wrote:   
   > > > On 2014-12-18 02:27:53 +0000, Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble   
   Philosopher said:   
   > > >   
   > > > > On Wednesday, December 17, 2014 2:37:08 PM UTC-5, Alan Baker wrote:   
   > > > >> On 2014-12-17 19:30:50 +0000, Free Spirit, Chief of Quixotic   
   Enterprises said:   
   > > > >   
   > > > >>> In the process they have killed many communities, giving rise to the   
   > > > >>> infamous gated communities. Are you willing to pay to live in a   
   > > > >>> community where the kids can play? Then go to a gated communities.   
   > > > >>   
   > > > >> I'm sorry, but what evidence do you have that cars have "killed many   
   > > > >> communities"?   
   > > > >   
   > > > > You can't have communities without pedestrians/cyclists.   
   > > >   
   > > > 1. That's unsupported.   
   > > >   
   > > > 2. You can't support that cars have removed the ability for people to   
   > > > walk and bicycle.   
   > >   
   > > Well, make the distances impossible to walk and make riding a bike   
   grinding and suicidal, and you get cities without people. That would probably   
   be life outside of NYC and a few downtown areas.   
   > > >   
   > > > >  What you get is sprawl where nobody meets anyone. You must drive   
   > > > > everywhere, and public transportation is nearly dysfunctional.   
   > > >   
   > > > You might get NEW areas like that, but that wouldn't change old areas.   
   > >   
   > > The old areas become ghettoes, where crime and squalor take over once   
   vibrant areas.   
   > > >   
   > > > >   
   > > > > It's a desert with an oasis here and there. And you must drive from   
   > > > > here to there.   
   > > >   
   > > > Examples?   
   > >   
   > > Anywhere in America where the sprawl became prevalent. It's better to say   
   where it did NOT take place.   
   > > >   
   > > > >>   
   > > > >>>   
   > > > >>> I believe there's a medium ground between unleashed traffic and   
   > > > >>> controlled traffic, where the pedestrians feel safer. It may be   
   argued   
   > > > >>> that the SUV (the American supersized SUV) has no place in civilized   
   > > > >>> cities.   
   > > > >>>   
   > > > >>> In many ways, I think the trend is toward feudalism. The knights and   
   > > > >>> lords rule over the land. We just need to get rid of the terminology   
   of   
   > > > >>> "democracy." The lords rule from gated communities and castles. They   
   > > > >>> don't live with the commoners, whose concerns are always ignored.   
   > > > >>>   
   > > > >>> I don't think the "freedom of movement" is negotiable. It's not that   
   > > > >>> you don't accept certain risks involved with walking/riding a bike,   
   > > > >>> just that many solutions are really common sense. Speed cameras are   
   > > > >>> just one example.   
   > > > >>   
   > > > >> Speed cameras are simply a revenue grab. One can tell this because   
   > > > >> they're typically placed where almost everyone is exceeding the posted   
   > > > >> limit, and as has been studied and revealed, where that is happening,   
   > > > >> it is almost always the limit that is wrong and not the drivers.   
   > > > >   
   > > > > They are but they may accomplish something worthwhile. DUIs are also a   
   > > > > revenue grab but they somewhat mitigate the problem of drunk drivers.   
   > > >   
   > > > No. DUIs are NOT a revenue grab.   
   > > >   
   > > > You can tell this because the penalties for DUI...   
   > > >   
   > > > ...aren't monetary.   
   > >   
   > > I hear it costs you around $8000 to get past such ticket. If that's not   
   about money, then what is.   
   >   
   > And that figure does not include any judicial fines,  It is all the   
   ancilliary costs - traffic school, drug/alchohol treatments, restrictions on   
   driving, paying for the mandatory 'Blow in here before he car will start'   
   thingy, etc.   
   >   
   > Harry K   
      
   Today I endeavored myself to fairly long bike ride, practical bike ride,   
   loaded with stuff, and these are the outstanding events:   
      
   1- Two tectonic plates were dislocated on the sidewalk, which may have caused   
   catastrophic to my holy self if not because I knew they had been there for a   
   long time.   
      
   2- Later, riding in traffic, a driver blasted the horn and sent me onto the   
   sidewalk.   
      
   3- No people. No cyclists, no pedestrians. And this is the main artery north   
   to south.   
      
   The day was beautiful, the birds were singing, but the roads are not ready for   
   competition. Again, the sidewalks are not ready either.   
      
   Welcome to the Jungle.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)