From: thetibetanmonkey@gmail.com   
      
   On Thursday, December 18, 2014 4:06:12 AM UTC-5, Malcolm McMahon wrote:   
   > On Wednesday, 17 December 2014 19:27:04 UTC, Free Spirit, Chief of Quixotic   
   Enterprises  wrote:   
   > > On Wednesday, December 17, 2014 4:03:08 AM UTC-5, Malcolm McMahon wrote:   
   > > > On Wednesday, 17 December 2014 03:54:44 UTC, Wise TibetanMonkey, Most   
   Humble Philosopher  wrote:   
   > > > > On Tuesday, December 16, 2014 7:51:17 PM UTC-5, Alan Baker wrote:   
   > > > > > On 2014-12-17 00:29:33 +0000, Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble   
   Philosopher said:   
   > > > > >    
   > > > > > > On Tuesday, December 16, 2014 11:57:06 AM UTC-5, Alan Baker wrote:   
   > > > > > >> On 2014-12-16 14:23:32 +0000, Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble   
   Philosopher said:   
   > > > > > >>    
   > > > > > >>> On Monday, December 15, 2014 10:13:58 PM UTC-5, Wise   
   TibetanMonkey,> >    
   > > > > > >>> Most Humble Philosopher wrote:   
   > > > > > >>>> On Monday, December 15, 2014 7:38:50 PM UTC-5, th   
   kma...@gmail.com wrote:   
   > > > > > >>>>> Free Spirit:   
   > > > > > >>>>>    
   > > > > > >>>>> Two-fold:  A misplaced focus on speed, and on generating   
   revenues to>    
   > > > > > >>>>> >>> line the pockets of politicians.   
   > > > > > >>>>>    
   > > > > > >>>>> Like I said a couple posts back, speed is not the issue, it's   
   what one>    
   > > > > > >>>>> >>> is doing/focusing on at speed.   
   > > > > > >>>>    
   > > > > > >>>> Good drivers going fast can be better than bad drivers going   
   slow. But>    
   > > > > > >>>> >> bad drivers going fast are like an unguided missile.   
   > > > > > >>>    
   > > > > > >>> Let's assume a "good driver" going fast: An idiot walks into his   
   path>    
   > > > > > >>> > misjudging the distance and he's history. The good driver has   
   a    
   > > > > > >>> death> > on his record.   
   > > > > > >>    
   > > > > > >> Sorry, but:   
   > > > > > >>    
   > > > > > >> 1. A good driver can avoid an idiot who just walks into his path    
   > > > > > >> pretty> often. In order to hit a good driver, you actually have   
   to hide    
   > > > > > >> your> intention to jump in front of him.   
   > > > > > >>    
   > > > > > >> 2. If someone can get in front of the good driver in the window   
   where>    
   > > > > > >> he cannot stop, and you're willing to call that person's death>    
   > > > > > >> unacceptable, then you are forced to set traffic speeds   
   unreasonably>    
   > > > > > >> low for the risk this poses.   
   > > > > > >>    
   > > > > > >>>    
   > > > > > >>> We have around here three lanes squeezed into two and the result   
   is> >    
   > > > > > >>> anyone opening the cars' doors on either side of the road is   
   gambling>    
   > > > > > >>> > his life. The speed in that area should be 20 mph but it's   
   common to>    
   > > > > > >>> > see drivers going 40 mph or more. We should not let the good   
   driver>    
   > > > > > >>> > make all kinds of judgement.   
   > > > > > >>    
   > > > > > >> Actually, the research from traffic engineers and others looking   
   into>    
   > > > > > >> it is that that is exactly what we should do.   
   > > > > > >>    
   > > > > > >>> There are all kinds of idiots out there, but the engineers are   
   the    
   > > > > > >>> main> > issue. Why? Because they don't care. You see accidents    
   > > > > > >>> happening in the> > same area and they don't correct anything.   
   Again,    
   > > > > > >>> they don't care.   
   > > > > > >>    
   > > > > > >> You think that the engineers are the problem?   
   > > > > > >>    
   > > > > > >> LOL   
   > > > > > >    
   > > > > > > The engineers are the main problem, drivers and pedestrians can   
   also be    
   > > > > > > part of the problem.   
   > > > > >    
   > > > > > No. They are not.   
   > > > >    
   > > > > It's no secret that you can count some idiots among pedestrians and   
   drivers...   
   > > > >    
   > > > > But the engineers couldn't even make passing lanes part of the design.   
   The end result is chaos and mayhem. It's not they are stupid. They are corrupt   
   or they simply don't care.   
   > > > >    
   > > > > This sign got me in trouble when riding a bicycle and a driver spit in   
   my face because of it: "Walk bicycle across bridge."   
   > > > >    
   > > > >     
   > > > > >    
   > > > > > > They want to accommodate the maximum volume of cars, with little   
   regard    
   > > > > > > to safety. I remember the same winding road next to Woodbourne,   
   NY,    
   > > > > > > changing the speed limit wildly from 35 mph to 55 mph. If you   
   followed    
   > > > > > > those limits, it would get you killed.   
   > > > > >    
   > > > > > Cite?   
   > > > >    
   > > > > Eyewitness account (myself).   
   > > > >    
   > > > > >    
   > > > > > >  But they figure nobody can follow such wild changes from one   
   section    
   > > > > > > of the road to another. Same road! Hey, they are hiding everywhere    
   > > > > > > waiting for unsuspecting drivers who failed to adjust from 55 mph   
   to 35    
   > > > > > > mph.   
   > > > > > > And that's the whole point about it. Money, mucho dinero,   
   predation...   
   > > > > >    
   > > > > > Cite?   
   > > > >    
   > > > > You think they are trying to make roads any safer? They would lower   
   the speed limits after so many accidents, right? Well, they don't. They just   
   pick up the bodies, and sweep the debris.   
   > > >    
   > > > It's not possible to place an infinite value on human life when doing   
   road planning. Almost every human economic activity involves some deaths,   
   placing an infinite value on human life would bring our whole society to a   
   standstill (and we'd all    
   starve).   
   > > >    
   > > > So, as I understand it, road planners place a high, but finite value on   
   road deaths. The last figure I heard was £700,000 per death but that was years   
   ago (and in the UK).   
   > > >    
   > > > (This figure strikes me as being in the same ballpark as the total,   
   lifetime production cost of an adult westerner, once you take into account   
   food, medical care, education etc.).   
   > > >    
   > > > Of course this isn't widely advertised, its not something people want to   
   deal with but road planners have no choice. They are one of the few groups of   
   decision makers who can't fudge the question.   
   > > >    
   > > > Its simply not possible to reduce road deaths to zero. Ultimately   
   there's no choice but to balance lives and utility.   
   > > >    
   > > > Likewise if they lowered the speed limit every time there was an   
   accident speed limits would be everywhere zero.   
   > > >    
   > > > As a society we've concluded that a certain level of road deaths is a   
   price we're willing to pay for the huge economic benefits of road transport.   
   > >    
   > > In the process they have killed many communities, giving rise to the   
   infamous gated communities. Are you willing to pay to live in a community   
   where the kids can play? Then go to a gated communities.   
   >    
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)