From: nuh-uh@nope.com   
      
   On 2025-08-13 00:47, Mark wrote:   
   > Geoff  wrote:   
   >> On 12/08/2025 7:46 pm, Alan wrote:   
   >>> On 2025-08-12 00:15, Yazoo wrote:   
   >>>>   
   >>>> We can agree to disagree.   
   >>>> I've been following F1 since mid-seventies.   
   >>>   
   >>> So have I.   
   >>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> There were some competitive and arrogant drivers: Hunt, Senna, Alonso,   
   >>>> Michael Schumacher, Jacques Villeneuve, Montoya, Nelson Piquet,   
   >>>> Hamilton.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> But only match in this regard with Max Vertsapen could be Michael   
   >>>> Scumacher. These two stand out in this group.   
   >>> But each of those you've mentioned was in the spotlight.   
   >>   
   >>   
   >> Yeh, but that was part of why they were in the spotlight.   
   >   
   > Don't bother, Geoff. We know Alan is a contrarian. He doesn't understand   
   > the "part of" means "not only" or recognise that all of them were well   
   > known at various times (and for various reasons) for aggressive driving.   
   > It wasn't just "results" that made them famous at the time or since.   
      
   I understand "part of" completely well.   
      
   I just happen to think its bullshit in this instance to claim that they   
   were in the spotlight in any part because of their alleged personality   
   defects.   
      
   Every single driver in that list with the exception of Montoya was a   
   World Driving Champion, and so whatever personality they had, it was   
   going to be on full display.   
      
   >   
   > In most cases, I don't think it was unreasonable - the whole "If you no   
   > longer go for a gap which exists you are no longer a racing driver"   
   > quote has merit   
      
   That was Senna attempting to justify what was (I freely admit) pretty   
   much and unjustifiable, and coldbloodedly deliberate drive of Alain   
   Proust off the road. He can call it "going for a gap" but he didn't care   
   at all if a pass was possible.   
      
   > - but these pretty much all did things at times that   
   > were well beyond reasonable. Verstappen isn't completely unique, but he   
   > *is* an outlier even within that group. As Yazoo said, of that group I   
   > would only really put Schumacher in the same group. He benefited not   
   > just from when he was the best driver in the best car, he benefited from   
   > people jumping out of the way "just in case". It's on such fine margins   
   > that you win additional WDCs. Verstappen is the same.   
   >   
   > Some people have blinkers on.   
      
   I have no blinkers on at all, but answer me this:   
      
   What was Ralf Schumacher like?   
      
   Oh, you don't know? Why is that?   
      
   How about most of the drivers in F1 who basically toiled in obscurity   
   before "Drive to Survive" brought a whole lot more attention to the sport?   
      
   >   
   >    
      
   This isn't about knowing better because I also race. It's about   
   understanding the nature of highly driven people who have also been   
   given kid gloves treatment:   
      
   They're almost ALL prima-donnas!   
      
   Everything about the years leading up to getting into F1 sets them up to   
   be.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)