From: bill.sloman@ieee.org   
      
   On 2/12/2025 2:01 pm, john larkin wrote:   
   > On Mon, 1 Dec 2025 11:08:50 -0800, Joerg    
   > wrote:   
   >   
   >> On 12/1/25 10:45 AM, john larkin wrote:   
   >>> On Mon, 1 Dec 2025 10:00:05 -0800, Joerg    
   >>> wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>> On 11/29/25 9:30 PM, Bill Sloman wrote:   
   >>>>> On 30/11/2025 8:13 am, Joerg wrote:   
   >>>>>> On 11/26/25 7:01 PM, Edward Rawde wrote:   
   >>>>   
   >>>> [...]   
   >>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> None. But plenty of present day students seem to have to have a job   
   >>>>>>> as well as school.   
   >>>>>>> In my case I did partially have a job while at school because   
   >>>>>>> although my father didn't   
   >>>>>>> specifically offer equipment repair to people off the street, I would   
   >>>>>>> often find a   
   >>>>>>> non functional piece of electronics waiting for me to find out what   
   >>>>>>> was wrong with it.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Exactly. Either that or have an electronics hobby. In my case that was   
   >>>>>> ham radio but I also repaired lots of radios and TVs. The point is, if   
   >>>>>> someone isn't doing any of this and thus hasn't acquired basic skills   
   >>>>>> such as soldering or trying to figure out how a circuit is supposed to   
   >>>>>> work but doesn't, maybe he or she should not head into an engineering   
   >>>>>> career.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Graduate students learn this kind of practical stuff later than   
   >>>>> hobbyists, but there's no reason why they wouldn't learn it just as   
   >>>>> well. ...   
   >>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> The point is that there is a "too late". Once they have their degree and   
   >>>> apply for jobs it is too late.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> [...]   
   >>>   
   >>> Best to start on electronics while you're a kid.   
   >>>   
   >>> A mentor sure helps.   
   >>>   
   >>   
   >> Absolutely. It's also important to start "cross-mentoring" among   
   >> students at high school, gets you into the grove of real mentoring later   
   >> (giving back). In essence we did a lot of brain storming back then. I   
   >> knew a lot about analog, others knew a lot about the up and coming 7400   
   >> series logic, so we complemented each.   
   >>   
   >>   
   >>> Few college EE profs have ever had a real job.   
   >>>   
   >>   
   >> When one of them told us that a grounded base structure for a FET   
   >> amplifier is nonsensical I stopped attending and just sat for the exam   
   >> (in Germany there was no requirement to attend). But not before showing   
   >> him the schematic of my ham radio transceiver. He couldn't believe what   
   >> he saw.   
   >   
   > I wonder if the typical EE education makes people good at designing   
   > electronics. I think not.   
      
   It's not intended to. Education tells you what's available and how other   
   people have exploited that. Design is about putting stuff together to   
   solve new problems.   
      
   Copying other people's solutions isn't design, but any sensible designer   
   exploits known solutions to solve specific problems if they can't come   
   up with a better solution. Putting a  bunch of known solutions together   
   in a new way definitely qualifies as design, and usually involves coping   
   with unexpected interactions.   
      
   Education is about giving people intellectual tools. Design exploits   
   those tools.   
      
   Education is about remembering stuff, and knowing how that fits   
   together. Design is about putting it together in new and original ways.   
      
   --   
   Bill Sloman, Sydney   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)