From: theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk
Don Y wrote:
>
> I have no desire for "customers". I don't want folks showing up on MY
> doorstep, having to make plans to meet at a particular time, etc. Or,
> coming back a year from now because something ELSE shit the bed and
> expecting me to fix it for them (as-is, where-is). That's a *business*.
> Rather, I'm looking to see what I can divert from land fills with "a
> little bit of (my) time and (my) money".
>
> [You can't imagine how much "stuff" gets discarded!]
>
> As of yesterday, there are 25 such TVs that will end up in the tip if
> nothing is done about them. After the holiday, there will likely be
> two or three times that total -- with more coming in every day. There
> isn't enough time/manpower to address *everything* that gets discarded
> with useful life. (I've refurbished a dozen electric wheelchairs but
> even "for free", you can't give them away because they are difficult
> to transport and who is going to SERVICE it if you have NEED of one?)
At least in the West, people are (relatively speaking) cash-rich and
time-poor. If people are paid a decent amount, they can just click Buy Now
on a website and get a new item delivered to their door for zero effort and
a relatively modest amount of money. If they aren't well paid, they may be
working so many hours that they don't have time to go foraging for used
items - or they could be sick or some other reason that also makes that
difficult.
That's why a big part of getting rid of these things is convenience: the
item may be free, but there's a hassle-cost. For many people the
hassle-cost isn't worth it.
> LCD monitors are not worth the effort, anymore -- they have become
> commodity products.
>
> We scrap pallets of network switches every week. Ditto UPSs. (Often NiB!)
Old IT gear is often power hungry and will eat up any savings in electricity
cost. Better to buy new and save electricity for years than save a bit on an
old one but commit yourself to a bigger monthly bill.
Big companies also aren't interested in used gear, especially buying from
non-established stores (you need to be vetted to become an approved
supplier, accept purchase orders and terms of payment are 60 days).
> We only refurbish PC's with i5's or better. Servers get scrapped "whole"
> (cuz the folks who disassemble the PCs are stumped by the construction
> and size of most servers).
Given the current price of memory, there could be a bit of a relapse where
running old servers with lots of DDR3 suddenly makes sense again, because
the prices of DDR4 and DDR5 have gone crazy.
> Medical devices can't be reintroduced to the US market (so have to be
> exported to someone who will assume responsibility for them "elsewhere",
> typically a second or third world country).
I would not be surprised if there are enterprising companies doing that.
Could well imagine hospitals outfitted with hand-me-down kit, with local
support staff to repair it.
> There are only so many "keyboards" (as in "organs") for which you can
> find a home.
>
> There's little need for "old phones" as folks always want the latest and
> greatest -- and it was "free" with their 3 year service plan! I've rescued
> half a dozen phones and use them as appliances: one sits by my bed
> with a BT speaker if I want to listen to music; one has some games on
> it; one I carry when I'm away from the house; one for SWMBO; one for our
> regular "home phone" service; one as a (small) portable media player when
> I'm out walking (and timepiece); etc.
Lack of software and security updates are troublesome for smartphones.
> When TV's were in the 40 inch range, you could coax someone to taking one
> off your hands (free). But, at 85 inches, they're not interested -- or,
> already have a NEW set that fits that bill. Or, think 99K is so much more
> viewable than anything less...
>
> We can gift some to shelters for battered women -- but, they tend to
> want *one* communal TV, not one for each "apartment/room".
If you have a local homeless support organisation that could be a route -
for folks who now have somewhere to live off the street, but it needs
furnishing for no money. It would probably need some kind of electrical
safety testing first. (it is not appreciated if you electrocute the client,
even if the item was free)
> Exactly. They'll drag them to a flea market, swap meet, across the border
> into mexico, etc. But, only if they *work*, else they develop a reputation
> for selling crap.
>
> If they want to make money on this endeavor, then THEY should invest the
> time and money repairing them. We'll GLADLY give you every one that comes
> in the door -- some MAY even work (but YOU will have to make that assessment)
It sounds like you need to go into business with some such people - you
source the merchandise, they do the sales, you get a cut. The handling of
'returns' is just a cost of doing business.
> > Or it could be that you aren't adding enough value to make it worth your
> > while. In which case you have to put a value on how much you're willing to
> > expend to keep the item from landfill (or being recycled).
>
> They aren't really recyclable. The screen and frame to support it set a
> minimum size on any disposal. There are only a couple of PCBs inside -- and
> a lot (relatively) of effort to get at them (working on even a 55" TV takes
> a whole tabletop -- I rely on the living room *floor*!).
>
> I can replace LDOs, caps, reflow joints, etc. for very little money. But,
> if there isn't a "customer" waiting to take the item, what point in that?
The thing about e-waste is it's cheaper to make a new one that it is to
dispose of the old one. That's why companies have to pay to dispose of
electricals, and how this junk ends up at your door. The question is does
it have enough residual value to make it worthwhile becoming non-junk?
Otherwise you're just helping companies skip their obligations.
> We had a guy who used to build Linux boxes. He stopped coming in when he
> realized no one wanted a *free* Linux box!
There's a reason why this stuff is here: supply > demand. You can work on
the supply but you also need to generate the demand.
Theo
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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