From: blockedofcourse@foo.invalid
On 12/18/2025 3:43 PM, Theo wrote:
> Don Y wrote:
>>
>> I have no desire for "customers". I don't want folks showing up on MY
>> doorstep, having to make plans to meet at a particular time, etc. Or,
>> coming back a year from now because something ELSE shit the bed and
>> expecting me to fix it for them (as-is, where-is). That's a *business*.
>> Rather, I'm looking to see what I can divert from land fills with "a
>> little bit of (my) time and (my) money".
>>
>> [You can't imagine how much "stuff" gets discarded!]
>>
>> As of yesterday, there are 25 such TVs that will end up in the tip if
>> nothing is done about them. After the holiday, there will likely be
>> two or three times that total -- with more coming in every day. There
>> isn't enough time/manpower to address *everything* that gets discarded
>> with useful life. (I've refurbished a dozen electric wheelchairs but
>> even "for free", you can't give them away because they are difficult
>> to transport and who is going to SERVICE it if you have NEED of one?)
>
> At least in the West, people are (relatively speaking) cash-rich and
> time-poor.
Sadly, they aren't as "cash-rich" as they would like to think (why the
fuss over problems with home ownership? 30 yr mortgages replacing 20;
50 replacing 30??)
They are also time-poor because they don't prioritize how they WANT
to spend their time and let others drive those choices.
> If people are paid a decent amount, they can just click Buy Now
> on a website and get a new item delivered to their door for zero effort and
> a relatively modest amount of money. If they aren't well paid, they may be
> working so many hours that they don't have time to go foraging for used
> items - or they could be sick or some other reason that also makes that
> difficult.
There are large populations of folks who are disadvantaged -- whether it
is a fault of their lifestyle or just "bad luck". But, given the amount
of *surplus* kit that is available, its foolhardy to say "they don't
DESERVE to have 'better things'"
> That's why a big part of getting rid of these things is convenience: the
> item may be free, but there's a hassle-cost. For many people the
> hassle-cost isn't worth it.
Getting rid of things is usually easy -- craig's list, freecycle, find
a neighbor, wait for bulk trash pickup, etc. (how do you think I got
rid of our old water heater?!) Or, just *pay* someone to make it
THEIR problem.
Acquisition of items of unknown/dubious condition is a bigger problem.
Most folks don't have the skills to even evaluate if something is fully
functional.
[A fellow volunteer once announced, to me, that he had just refurbished
an AM-FM radio "but only the AM works!". I replied, "Dwight, we call
that an AM RADIO! Just toss it." Same guy used to snip the power cords
off toasters "in case we need one". "Dwight, *when* we need one, there
will probably be a toaster sitting around WAITING to have its cord cut off!"]
>> LCD monitors are not worth the effort, anymore -- they have become
>> commodity products.
>>
>> We scrap pallets of network switches every week. Ditto UPSs. (Often NiB!)
>
> Old IT gear is often power hungry and will eat up any savings in electricity
> cost. Better to buy new and save electricity for years than save a bit on an
> old one but commit yourself to a bigger monthly bill.
That's a specious argument. Are you willing to upgrade your OS and relicense
all of your apps when that "new", energy efficient machine no longer has
drivers for the OS you'd been running?
We had a large company, here, that ran their enterprise on Sun big iron.
Until last year (how long has Sun been gone?). Hit IT costs were miniscule
because he only had to maintain WORKING applications instead of being
dragged into the latest and greatest "solution" that someone wanted to
push on him.
The power used by the rescued kit that I run is dwarfed by the HVAC
kicking on (cooling season is February through November -- it was 90F here
yesterday). KNOWING that I can make a particular piece of kit work
is far more efficient than spending time researching "current offerings",
making a purchase and *then* discovering that some bit of new-fangled
hardware is only supported under Windows, etc.
> Big companies also aren't interested in used gear, especially buying from
> non-established stores (you need to be vetted to become an approved
> supplier, accept purchase orders and terms of payment are 60 days).
This is the reason I can rescue servers so easily. The previous owner decides
to upgrade (for whatever reason) and no one is interested in 3 yr old kit
for an enterprise.
OTOH, I can put eight spindles in a box and power it up *when* I need
to retrieve something from THAT box -- then "shutdown -p now".
There are two machines, here, that are ALWAYS running: this AiO (an i5
that draws 48W *including* the microwave transceiver to my ISP) and
a little USFF drawing about 10W box that does all of my network services
(NTP, TFTP, DNS, BOOTP, etc.)
The four *switches* easily consume much more.
>> We only refurbish PC's with i5's or better. Servers get scrapped "whole"
>> (cuz the folks who disassemble the PCs are stumped by the construction
>> and size of most servers).
>
> Given the current price of memory, there could be a bit of a relapse where
> running old servers with lots of DDR3 suddenly makes sense again, because
> the prices of DDR4 and DDR5 have gone crazy.
Aside from the aforementioned "small boxes", my machines have 96G - 512G of
RAM. Its almost sinful to have a file server SUPPORTING ONE USER with
24 cores, etc. But, it costs the same (rescued) as an antique would!
>> Medical devices can't be reintroduced to the US market (so have to be
>> exported to someone who will assume responsibility for them "elsewhere",
>> typically a second or third world country).
>
> I would not be surprised if there are enterprising companies doing that.
> Could well imagine hospitals outfitted with hand-me-down kit, with local
> support staff to repair it.
There are liability issues. If that refurbished DaVinci robot injures
a patient, can you imagine the plantiff's lawyer painting a picture of
how *cheap* your hospital was in relying on "used" equipment?
We refurbish wheelchairs, walkers, autoclaves, and other DME. But, anything
that might be directly involved in patient care (e.g., cardiac monitors)
gets shipped out of the country. Or, discarded.
I recall an 18x18x18" box full of (used!) scissors from suture removal kits.
[continued in next message]
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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