XPost: comp.arch.embedded   
   From: bill.sloman@ieee.org   
      
   On 1/02/2026 12:33 am, Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester wrote:   
   > Bill Sloman  wrote:   
   > |-------------------------------------------------------------------|   
   > |"> N.B. Bill Sloman misused "learned" instead of "learnt".         |   
   > |                                                                   |   
   > |It's not a misuse, merely a regional variant."                     |   
   > |-------------------------------------------------------------------|   
   >   
   > Dear Doctor Sloman,   
   >   
   > A use of "learned" instead of "learnt" is a regional misuse.   
      
   A language is defined by what people say. I was brought up speaking   
   English in Australia, and worked in England for 22 years, and in the   
   Netherlands for 19 years. My wife was a psycholinguist, and I do know   
   about regional variation. Anybody who labels regional variants as   
   regional misuse is simply ignorant.   
      
   > |--------------------------------------------------------|   
   > |"Many Dutch kids learn French[. . .] from an early age."|   
   > |--------------------------------------------------------|   
   >   
   > I used to be employed in the Netherlands by an employer whose   
   > languages are French and English. The Anglophones who used to be   
   > employed by this then employer then vastly outnumber the Francophones   
   > who used to be employed by this employer then.   
      
   And I was employed in the Netherlands - in Venlo - by Haffmans BV, where   
   I talked Dutch unless I needed technical vocabulary, when I tended to   
   switch to English. German was used from time to time, and I could mostly   
   follow it   
   >   
   > A then Anglophone neigbour used to persecute a then workmate who   
   > natively speaks French and who at that time used to work in French and   
   > English, by repeatedly saying to him in English (not French) that he   
   > must speak Dutch.   
      
   My biggest problem with learning Dutch was people who wanted to practice   
   their English on me.   
      
   > A friend of Belgian nationality told me that persons of Dutch   
   > nationality say things to her like "Wow! You can speak French!"   
   >   
   > I detected no-one in the Netherlands using French when I used to reside   
   > there, except for coworkers.   
      
   I got taught French in school in Tasmania - not all that well. I was   
   good enough to let me read the Nouveau Traite de Chemie Minerale, which   
   I needed to be able to do as a chemist. My German was a bit better, but   
   definitely not fluent.   
      
   > All then employees then in this section of this then employer are   
   > Anglophones. A majority (55%) are Francophones, an unusually high   
   > proportion. This then chief is natively a Francophone. English is this   
   > project's language.   
   >   
   > A Dutch then company (before it went bust) on this project tried to   
   > apply for money to a French centre for an unrelated project. This   
   > Dutch ex-company's ex-chiefs are of Dutch nationality. They wanted to   
   > know if a tender must show a proposed price including tax or excluding   
   > tax. So they telephoned this French centre to ask. They did try   
   > asking in broken French, but they rapidly reverted to English while   
   > they frantically reached for their French dictionary to find a French   
   > word for tax. Given this lack of preparation and given this   
   > anti-engineering belief, this ex-company deservedly went bust.   
      
   When I was working in England, several of the companies I worked for had   
   dealings with the their French equivalents, and I spent about six months   
   spending my working week in Paris with a small team of other engineers,   
   flying back to England every weekend. I knew enough French to know that   
   the first translation of an operating manual we had been given was total   
   rubbish, but we'd co-opted a French engineer who normally lived and   
   worked in Bristol, and he cleaned it up.   
   >   
   > |-----------------------------------------------------------------|   
   > |"Many Dutch kids learn [. . .] German [. . .] from an early age."|   
   > |-----------------------------------------------------------------|   
   >   
   > I bought German magazines from a person of Dutch nationality who used   
   > to be raised in the Netherlands near the German border. He used to buy   
   > them by short travels into Germmany. He did not have a good grasp of   
   > German when I bought them, so he declined to use German.   
      
   The Plattdeutch spoken just across the border from the Netherlands is   
   very close to Dutch.   
      
   > |----------------------------------------------------------|   
   > |"Many Dutch kids learn [. . .] English from an early age."|   
   > |----------------------------------------------------------|   
   >   
   > Yes. "Langenscheidt Expresskurs Niederländisch" alleges that persons   
   > who speak Dutch are less good at English than they believe. I do not   
   > detect so.   
      
   https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steenkolenengels   
      
   is famous in the Netherlands. I never ran into an actual example in my   
   19 years in the country.   
   >   
   > |---------------------------------------------------------|   
   > |"Lots of Belgians are raised as French/Dutch bilinguals."|   
   > |---------------------------------------------------------|   
   >   
   > Of course. "Wow! You can speak French!" said an aforementioned friend   
   > of Belgian nationality acting like persons of Dutch   
   > nationality. "Yeah. [She can speak ]A little[ French]." said she   
   > herself as a response to downplay these amazements.   
   > (S. HTTP://Gloucester.Insomnia247.NL/ fuer Kontaktdaten!)   
      
   --   
   Bill Sloman, Sydney   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)