From: jl@glen--canyon.com   
      
   On Fri, 6 Feb 2026 18:30:13 +1100, Bill Sloman    
   wrote:   
      
   >On 6/02/2026 6:36 am, john larkin wrote:   
   >> On Thu, 5 Feb 2026 16:50:47 +1100, Bill Sloman    
   >> wrote:   
   >>   
   >>> On 5/02/2026 8:21 am, john larkin wrote:   
   >>>> On Wed, 4 Feb 2026 21:31:59 +0100, Gerhard Hoffmann    
   >>>> wrote:   
   >>>>   
   >>>>> Am 04.02.26 um 15:35 schrieb Bill Sloman:   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> Blue LED's were a Japanese invention. American tend to be unaware of   
   this.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Siemens Silicon Carbide   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> You may have heard about ASML:   
   >>>>>>>> The Netherlands   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> They bought Cymer, in San Diego, to get the EUV technology. My company   
   >>>>>>> designed the first gen tin droplet electronics.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> ... and Carl Zeiss extended UV optics   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Trumph makes the gigantic CO2 lasers that nuke the tin droplets.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> It's a very messy, dirty process. Tin splatters everywhere.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Cymer used flowing hydrogen to capture the tin before it trashed all   
   >>>> the optics. GigaPhoton tried to use superconductive magnets somehow,   
   >>>> but gave up.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> There must be a better way to do nm lithography. Several people are   
   >>>> trying.   
   >>>   
   >>> People have been working on doing lithography better since we first   
   >>> started making integrated circuits. There's not a lot of low-hanging   
   >>> fruit left to pluck, but we will keep trying.   
   >>   
   >> Xlight among others are trying to use FELs to make EUV. It looks   
   >> difficult.   
   >   
   >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-electron_laser   
   >   
   >> I can imagine one such source in the entire world, selling EUV beams   
   >> to a bunch of nearby fabs.   
   >   
   >Your imagination isn't backed up by much real-world information.   
      
   I have talked to some of the people trying to do it. They envision   
   their source feeding multiple fabs.   
      
   >There   
   >seem to be quite a few free electron lasers around the world at the   
   >moment. So far they are just expensive research tools, so there aren't   
   >all that many.   
   >   
   >Once somebody works out how to make one that is good enough to use as a   
   >light source for EUV lithography, people will copy it repeatedly.   
      
   It might be a square mile of gear and cost $100B and make a LOT of   
   EUV. It would make sense to have one and plop a bunch of fabs around   
   it. Sell the EUV.   
      
   We did several subsystems for the Jlabs CEBAF accelerator. It's a big   
   deal. Lots of liquid helium.   
      
   A tin droplet (we worked on that too) is an incoherent source that   
   sprays EUV (and tin) in all directions.   
      
      
   John Larkin   
   Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center   
   Lunatic Fringe Electronics   
      
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