From: blockedofcourse@foo.invalid   
      
   On 2/8/2026 3:11 PM, ehsjr wrote:   
   >> But, that still doesn't tell me if it is considered as a "device"   
   >> in the same sense that a light switch, receptacle, etc. would be   
   >> in volume calculations.   
   >   
   > For volume calculations you need to look at NEC section 314.16   
   > I can't tell for sure how many conductors are in the picture,   
   > nor can I tell their size or the number of conductors of conductors   
   > entering the box.   
      
   I'm not worried about the conductors.  I've done the calculations   
   many times for different installations.   
      
   *BUT*, I always knew that a switch, receptacle, etc. counted as   
   a "device" -- 2 volume units.   
      
   I don't see anything in the code or marked on the device (or its   
   documentation) that would clearly state how this "thing" (avoiding   
   the use of the term "device") should be handled in those calculations.   
      
   > Whether compliant for installation where planned or not would be   
   > determined by the AHJ during the electrical plan review phase.  Not   
   > all jurisdictions follow the NEC. (For exanmple, NYC has its own   
   > code) There can be local rules more stringent than the NEC. That   
   > said for NEC compliance section 314.16 applies.   
   >   
   >>> If you're wondering about the UL224 marking, it's   
   >>> for the heatshrink, not whatever is inside.   
   >>>   
   >>> Question 2:  dunno.   
   >>>   
   >>> Question 3:  Either get it listed, operate it under   
   >>> "engineering supervision" acceptable to the AHJ   
   >>> (electrical inspector at the usage location), or   
   >>> build it into an appliance that is not part of the   
   >>> facility wiring.  I'm sure you don't want any of   
   >>> that; I don't know how else to do it. Sorry.   
   >>   
   >> I figured a mains powered lamp, visible through the   
   >> Jbox, wouldn't raise any eyebrows "electrically".   
   >   
   > If you modify the box to make the lamp visible, that's   
   > a violation.  The NEC says you must follow manufacturers   
   > instructions for installation and use of equipment.   
   > There may be some kind of listed "indicator" junction box   
   > that suits your specific needs - I dunno.   
      
   Install a listed "night light" and monitor the light   
   output.  (we have several of these wired in hallways and   
   bathrooms)   
      
   But, then you have to explain "why is that light, there?"   
   (forget the inspector; imagine the property owner asking)   
      
   AFAICT, these "things" are primarily used to isolate   
   a control signal to an external annunciator or actuator.   
   E.g., switch the mains to a klaxon in the event of   
   an "event".  Or, *remove* power from an electric door   
   clamp (so fire doors close under spring power).   
      
   >> But, then have to consider how *that* is interpreted   
   >> in volume calculations.   
   >   
   > Well, if willing, your local AHJ can assist you.  The   
   > bottom line with "code compliance" is getting the local   
   > AHJ's approval.   
      
   I'm not worried about *my* AHJ but, rather, someone who wants to   
   install a system in Wyoming, Boston, Los Angeles, etc.  If I can't   
   confidently argue for a particular interpretation of the Code, then   
   I can be sure the local "inspector" will resort to whatever "whim"   
   suits him (given this is likely NOT the sort of thing he would have   
   encountered -- and, of course, their word is Gospel!).  I need to   
   be able to comfortably describe the requirements to an architect   
   and not have him balk at them so he can defend them to the local   
   authority.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)