On Friday, January 31, 2014 1:03:39 PM UTC-5, haitic...@gmail.com wrote:   
   > On Thursday, January 30, 2014 9:55:56 AM UTC-5, Phil Hobbs wrote:   
   >    
   > > On    
   > >          "BW*log_2(1+SNR) ?"     
   > > It's Shannon's Theorem.  Entirely disprovable, novel, interesting,    
      
   >    
   > > useful, and all that.  Still going strong after 67 years.   
   >    
   > Yes, OK, point taken. But I am serious (as much as I can muster) about what   
   Shannon's theorem looks like in plain english. Or to be even more challenging,   
   how would you explain it to a "pre-scientific" person like Aristotle or even   
   an Australian bush-   
   man? You CAN explain Newton's laws, the energy laws, and much of classical   
   physics. If you go into "mystical" concepts (though they are not concepts   
   proper), you might convey aspects of quantum physics. (The primitive man might   
   be more acquainted with    
   the unknowable than us. ) I just wonder if Shannon is a general aspect of   
   life, or whether it only applies to communication channels as usually   
   presented.    
   >    
   >    
   >    
   > BUT, even without that generalization, would be good to hear verbal   
   explanation of Shannon.    
   >    
   >    
   >    
   > I got into these philosophical navel gazing because I thought the scientific   
   method inadequate to investigate complex phenomena like the causation of   
   cancer. Most researchers know that it has many factors, but there is no simple   
   "container" in the    
   scientific method for that. And it was immediately relevant to attempts to   
   make an AI SW for cancer preventrics and cures.   
   >    
   >    
   >    
   > It is frankly beyond me to imagine what the wider implications of Shannon   
   are -    
      
      
   OK how about this, (not my idea) Consider SETI.     
   Assume the aliens also know Shannon's theorem.   
   If they are communicating across the stars then they are most likely using a   
   wide bandwidth spread spectrum type technique.  And with a wide enough   
   bandwidth the signal will just look like noise to an outside observer.     
   Perhaps SETI is hopeless, at least in its current incarnation.     
      
   George H.    
      
      
   I am wondering how they tie into Godel and Tarski, as well as the whole idea   
   of connection to the universe that gets mystical. In working on AI and the   
   cancer problem, I have included some of these pre-scientific medical   
   ideas...We may think them    
   ignorant, but must bear in mind that many of the dietary and herbal preventive   
   measures were developed on intuition rather tha scientific logic as we know   
   it.    
   >    
   >    
   >    
   > Just a few thoughts.   
   >    
   > JB   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)