From: jos.bergervoet@xs4all.nl   
      
   On 2/25/2017 8:53 AM, toadastronomer@gmail.com wrote:   
      ..   
   > I don't see any obvious way for there to be sufficient separation   
   > of the pair to allow for escape/in-fall, except, as suggested in SH's   
   > blog post, that the pair creation be located at some significant   
   > distance from the collapsing mass.   
      
   Could you point out where exactly in the Penrose diagram?   
   Take for instance the case [1] of a black hole forming and   
   (much) later evaporating:   
      
            z|\   
            z|  \   
            z|    \I+   
            z|      \   
            z|        \   
            z|          \   
           h/           /   
         h/           /   
       h/           /   
     h/           /   
   z|          /   
   z|        /   
   z|      /I-   
   z|    /   
   z|  /   
   z|/   
      
   >  I don't know what rule(s) would   
   > allow a (massive) particle to be spontaneously created with sufficient   
   > velocity to do the trick.   
      
   Indeed, for in/out separation, the pair must either be created   
   right at the horizon (denoted "h" in the diagram) or in the   
   region outside the horizon. And exactly at the horizon can only   
   work for mass-less particle pairs.   
      
   The problem is that nothing special is present at the horizon,   
   nor slightly inside, and definitely not outside. At least in   
   the case of a macroscopic black hole. The gravity gradients   
   (tidal forces etc.) are in that case very small in that region   
   and certainly don't have to be more extreme than the conditions   
   on earth. And the pair creation will have to be based on only   
   that! (But obviously the amount of HR from a macroscopic BH is   
   indeed very small, so it simply could be like that. Or not?)   
      
   [1] See picture at  and   
   the discussion in   
      
      
   --   
   Jos   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
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