From: g.scholten@nospam.gmx.de   
      
   Ned Latham  wrote:   
      
   > Entropy and gravity work antagonistically (so to speak). The one works   
   > to disperse energy/matter; the other to consolidate it/them.   
      
   That's wrong.   
      
   If you consider an ideal gas in a bottle, then you're right: the state   
   of maximal entropy is the state where the gas particles are equally   
   distributed, i.e. "dispersed" over the complete volume of the bottle.   
      
   However, considering an ideal gas means assuming that there are no   
   attractive forces between the gas particles (or that those forces can be   
   neglected). Taking attractive forces into account - as it is done in the   
   model of van der Waals gas - yields two different cases: at high   
   temperatures, the thermal motion of the gas particles over-compensates   
   the influence of the attractive forces, and the gas behaves like an   
   ideal gas, whereas at low temperatures, below the boiling point, the   
   attractive forces become dominant, and the gas is fluidized.   
      
   In that fluid state, the state of maximal entropy is no longer the state   
   of equal distribution. Instead, the state of maximal entropy is a state   
   where the particles are close to each other.   
      
   The same is true if we assume the attractive forces as being   
   gravitational forces. So, by consolidating or compressing matter,   
   gravity does NOT lower the entropy. Instead, by matter being compressed   
   under the influence of some attractive force like gravity, entropy is   
   rather increased than decreased.   
      
   An extreme case would be that all matter of the universe were compressed   
   in black holes. According to Bekensteoin-Hawking entropy of black holes,   
   the total entropy of the universe would then be much higher than in the   
   case of equal distribution of all matter particles.   
      
   So, your statement that star formation could continue forever, since the   
   entropy of the universe could remain constant because gravity   
   neutralized the grow of entropy, is wrong.   
      
      
   > We can regard the universe as a closed system, but unlike the Second   
   > Law, we cannot ignore gravity.   
      
   The Second Law of thermodynamics does NOT ignore gravity. Only some of   
   its applications, like an ideal gas in a bottle, do. Other applications   
   do not.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)