From: goldenfieldquaternions@gmail.com   
      
   The problem here is that spacetime or horizons have what might be called   
   a specific heat that is negative. This is why entropy increases for   
   clumping of matter with gravitation, such as the maximum entropy limit   
   in a volume being a black hole. Also entropy increases with lower   
   temperature of a black hole. The entropy of a black hole is S =   
   kA/4L_p^2, for A the horizon area and L_p the Planck length. Gravitation   
   does in some ways turn the laws of thermodynamics upside down. In spite   
   of this the black hole laws of thermodynamics do not reverse entropy   
   increase for nongravitational physics.   
      
   LC   
      
      
   On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 6:43:56 AM UTC-5, Ned Latham wrote:   
   > Gregor Scholten wrote:   
   >> Ned Latham wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>> Entropy and gravity work antagonistically (so to speak). The one works   
   >>> to disperse energy/matter; the other to consolidate it/them.   
   >>   
   >> That's wrong.   
   >   
   > If yoy examone it with your eyes open, you'll see otherwise.   
   >   
   > Yout ideal gas in a bottle analogy is neither relevant nor apt.   
   >   
   > ----snip----   
   >   
   >> An extreme case would be that all matter of the universe were compressed   
   >> in black holes. According to Bekensteoin-Hawking entropy of black holes,   
   >> the total entropy of the universe would then be much higher than in the   
   >> case of equal distribution of all matter particles.   
   >   
   > You're arguing postulate as fact. It ain't.   
   >   
   >> So, your statement that star formation could continue forever, since the   
   >> entropy of the universe could remain constant   
   >   
   > I didn't say it would remain constant.   
   >   
   >> because gravity neutralized the grow of entropy,   
   >   
   > Nor did I say that gravity "neutralises" entropy.   
   > I saud that the two are antagonistic.   
   >   
   >> is wrong.   
   >   
   > My statement that star formation will continue forever *might* turn   
   > out to be wrong, but it won't be for reasons such as you have given.   
   >   
   >>> We can regard the universe as a closed system, but unlike the Second   
   >>> Law, we cannot ignore gravity.   
   >>   
   >> The Second Law of thermodynamics does NOT ignore gravity. Only some of   
   >> its applications, like an ideal gas in a bottle, do. Other applications   
   >> do not.   
   >   
   > Feel free to show something you think might pass as evidence of that.   
   > Be sure to check that you're evidencing the "Law" itself, not some   
   > "application" of it.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)