home bbs files messages ]

Forums before death by AOL, social media and spammers... "We can't have nice things"

   sci.physics.research      Current physics research. (Moderated)      17,516 messages   

[   << oldest   |   < older   |   list   |   newer >   |   newest >>   ]

   Message 16,154 of 17,516   
   Lawrence Crowell to stargene   
   Re: What effects on unitarity if BH Page   
   27 May 18 19:57:45   
   
   From: goldenfieldquaternions@gmail.com   
      
   On Sunday, May 27, 2018 at 5:38:41 AM UTC-5, stargene wrote:   
   > I ask an "in principle" thought experiment question:   
   >   
   > I imagine, in the same spirit as some earlier theories (eg: Hoyle,   
   > Narlikar...) but without specifying any mechanism, that the mass of the   
   > universe is not constant, but increases over cosmic time.  We allow this   
   > to happen at such a rate that, even with its ongoing accelerating   
   > expansion, even the thinnest spaces will always have enough mass density   
   > that all black holes will always increase their mass, by simple   
   > accretion.  Ie: No BH could ever reach its Page time (where it would   
   > have lost half its mass by Hawking radiation (HR).)   
   >   
   > Since this would seem to guarantee that all HR to be entangled with all   
   > of the remaining information-states still in the BH interior, I   
   > innocently ask:   
   >   
   > Would this scenario resolve the classic information loss paradox in BH   
   > physics and save unitarity?   
      
   The mass a black hole is related to the time of its evaporation by   
   t_{ev} = kM^3, for k a constant from G, c etc. The sun has a Hawking   
   lifetime of  about 10^{67}years. If we take half for the mass of the BH   
   to compute the time of evaporation after half is gone the time is 1/8th   
   that of the total lifetime. So we can approximate the Page time with the   
   Hawking time. So let  us compute the mass of a BH that would have its   
   Hawking lifetime the duration of the universe   
      
   t_{ev} =~10^{10}yr =~ 10^{67}yr*(M/M_{sol})^3   
      
   and we find M ~= 10^{-19}*M_{sol}. The sun has a mass of 2x10^{30}kg and   
   so this is a mass of about 2x10^{21}kg, or 1/2500 times the mass of the   
   Earth. This is about equivalent to a mass of the asteroid Ceres.   
      
   Could a black hole that mass have come into existence? There are ideas   
   about primordial black holes that emerged from the quantum tunneling   
   event that  generated the observable universe. It is also possible that   
   quantum black holes emerged in this process that existed for maybe a few   
   Planck units of time. To prevent black holes of any sort from occurring   
   in the duration of the universe would require serious fine tuning. If   
   the universe recollapses or there is a big rip singularity end of the   
   cosmos things would have to be fine tuned in order to prevent any black   
   hole from reaching its Page time.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)   

[   << oldest   |   < older   |   list   |   newer >   |   newest >>   ]


(c) 1994,  bbs@darkrealms.ca