From: bergervo@iae.nl   
      
   On 10/20/2018 10:22 PM, Nicolaas Vroom wrote:   
   > On Tuesday, 16 October 2018 20:28:44 UTC+2, Phillip Helbig wrote:   
   >> In article <23a86ac4-341e-4c8f-94a4-6bd9c17902c4@googlegroups.com>,   
   >> Nicolaas Vroom  writes:   
   >>   
   >>> In the book "In search of Schroedingers cat" at page 203, John Gribbin   
   >>> writes: Thew apparatus in the box is arranged so that the detector is   
   >>> switched on just long enough so that there is a fift-fifty chance that   
   >>> one of the atoms in the radioactive material will decay and that the   
   >>> detector will record a particle."   
   >>>   
   >>> That means you have to perform this experiment first 1000 times   
   >>> in order to establish what the half-life is.   
   >>   
   >> No; you can just use something with a known half-life.   
   >   
   > Consider the most? simple experiment.   
   > 1. We put a coin in the box. I shake the box.   
      
   What side is up when you put it in? Or is it in a superposition?   
      
   > 2. Before we open the box is the state of the coin now "both head and tail"?   
   > 3. Is the coin in a superposition state?  (IMO both no)   
      
   Assuming that it was *not* in a superposition to begin with (since you   
   forgot to specify that) it will then depends on how exactly you move   
   the box what the outcome will be. There must be some 'dividing line'   
   between scenarios where you make it flip, and scenarios where you don't.   
   If your series of movements is close enough to that dividing line, then   
   the result will be a superposition with significant amplitudes for both   
   outcomes. For most movements, however, the amplitude for one of the   
   outcomes is negligible, so practically speaking it will not be in a   
   superposition of heads and tails. (But most likely it's still in a   
   superposition of different locations in the box!)   
      
   > 4. You open the box and you look inside.   
   > 5. Does that mean that there is a collapse of the wave function?   
      
   No, objective collapse of the wavefunction was a wrong idea of the past.   
      
   > 6. You close the box.   
   > 7. Is the coin (again) in a superposition state?  (IMO no)   
      
   As explained, there is almost certainly a superposition involved for   
   things that are not exactly fixed (position, orientation, internal   
   position of crystal defects in the coin, etc.)   
      
   > 8. I open the box and I look inside.   
   > 9. Does that mean that there is (again) a collapse of the wave function?   
      
   Same as before! forget it! Superpositions never will go away by   
   themselves. That's what 'unitary time evolution' means.   
      
   Now it is clear that *in your opinion* all this cannot be true, but   
   I'm only telling you how modern quantum mechanics describes the world.   
   Which means that I do not claim that is is necessarily true, only that   
   it is the best theory we have.   
      
   --   
   Jos   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)