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|    sci.physics.research    |    Current physics research. (Moderated)    |    17,516 messages    |
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|    Message 17,405 of 17,516    |
|    Stefan Ram to moderator jt    |
|    Re: The momentum - a cotangent vector?    |
|    08 Aug 24 07:02:29    |
      From: ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de              moderator jt wrote or quoted:       >calculus. In this usage, these phrases describe how a vector (a.k.a       >a rank-1 tensor) transforms under a change of coordintes: a tangent       >vector (a.k.a a "contravariant vector") is a vector which transforms       >the same way a coordinate position $x^i$ does, while a cotangent vector       >(a.k.a a "covariant vector") is a vector which transforms the same way       >a partial derivative operator $\partial / \partial x^i$ does.               Yeah, that explanation is on the right track, but I got to add        a couple of things.               Explaining objects by their transformation behavior is        classic physicist stuff. A mathematician, on the other hand,        defines what an object /is/ first, and then the transformation        behavior follows from that definition.               You got to give it to the physicists---they often spot weird        structures in the world before mathematicians do. They measure        coordinates and see transformation behaviors, so it makes sense        they use those terms. Mathematicians then come along later, trying        to define mathematical objects that fit those transformation        behaviors. But in some areas of quantum field theory, they still        haven't nailed down a mathematical description. Using mathematical        objects in physics is super elegant, but if mathematicians can't        find those objects, physicists just keep doing their thing anyway!               A differentiable manifold looks locally like R^n, and a tangent        vector at a point x on the manifold is an equivalence class v of        curves (in R^3, these are all worldlines passing through a point        at the same speed). So, the tangent vector v transforms like        a velocity at a location, not like the location x itself. (When        one rotates the world around the location x, x is not changed,        but tangent vectors at x change their direction.)               A /cotangent vector/ at x is a linear function that assigns a        real number to a tangent vector v at the same point x. The total        differential of a function f at x is actually a covector that        linearly approximates f at that point by telling us how much the        function value changes with the change represented by vector v.               When one defines the "canonical" (or "generalized") momentum as        the derivative of a Lagrange function, it points toward being a        covector. But I was confused because I saw a partial derivative        instead of a total differential. But possibly this is just a        coordinate representation of a total differential. So, broadly,        it's plausible that momentum is a covector, but I struggle        with the technical details and physical interpretation. What        physical sense does it make for momentum to take a velocity        and return a number? (Maybe that number is energy or action).               (In the world of Falk/Ruppel ["Energie und Entropie", Springer,        Berlin] it's just the other way round. There, they write        "dE = v dp". So, here, the speed v is something that maps        changes of momentum dp to changes of the energy dE. This        immediately makes sense because when the speed is higher        a force field is traveled through more quickly, so the same        difference in energy results in a reduced transfer of momentum.        So, transferring the same momentum takes more energy when the        speed is higher. Which, after all, explains while the energy        grows quadratic with the speed and the momentum only linearly.)              --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05        * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)    |
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