XPost: alt.paranormal, alt.atheism, alt.conspiracy
XPost: alt.religion.christian
From: none@none.non
On Sep 22, 2025, Vincent Maycock wrote
(Message-ID:):
> On Mon, 22 Sep 2025 12:10:22 -0700, None wrote:
>
> > On Sep 22, 2025, Vincent Maycock wrote
> > (Message-ID:):
> >
> > > On Mon, 22 Sep 2025 07:41:08 -0700, "Andrew"
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > "Vincent Maycock" wrote in message
> > > > news:51k2dkp25k552cd68ir6p4luk488q1qia2@4ax.com...
> > > > > "Andrew" wrote:
> > > > > > "JTEM" wrote:
> > > > > > > Andrew wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Yes, but the Jews vehemently petitioned Pilate, specifically
for Him
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > be crucified.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I don't believe it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It seems that the Romans, who invented the story, cast the hated
> > > > > > > Jews as the bad guys.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But they were Jews themselves who wrote what happened..
> > > > >
> > > > > Judaism was the main competition for the early Christian church,
> > > >
> > > > The early Christian church were Jews...converted by the
> > > > powerful truth that Jesus was the Messiah in fulfillment
> > > > of all the messianic prophecies that were given to them.
> > >
> > > Ethnically, they were Jews, but theologically, Christians are *not*
> > > Jewish.
> >
> > Wrong, for a variety of reasons. Biggest of which is your understanding and
> > lack of knowledge. There is clear evidence in the NT that many Jews
> > considered the believers a sect of Judaism. In large part because the OT
> > scriptures speaks of Jesus the Messiah as being a Jew. And that He and His
> > work of God is clearly spoken of, which they recognized once shown the
> > scriptures after his resurrection. For a while there was an offshoot of
> > Judaism that followed his teachings yet held to the Old Covenant laws and
> > required that Christians, whether they be Jew of Gentile to do the same,
> > although their main focus was on the Jew, and the gentiles they thought of
> > as
> > dogs. Peter catered to this people whenever he was around them, yet lived
> > like a gentile believer when he was clear of them, to which Paul called him
> > out for it, and also God showed Peter visions that he was totally off base
> > in
> > doing so.
>
> No, the entire theological edifice of the New Testament is
> incompatible with the Jewish religion. Are you seriously unfamiliar
> with the use of theology in Christianity?
There is no theology in the NT.
I am somewhat familiar with theology within so-called Christianity in todays
time.
It in no way is compatible with what a Christian was when the term was first
applied to Believers in Jesus the Messiah/Christ.
The God of the NT is the same as the old. In all ways. And that is what
throws people off kilter as the do not understand what is the difference
between the Covenant of Law and the Covenant of Grace.
>
>
> > > > > so they tried to make "the Jews" look as bad as possible
> > > > > when they made up their stories about Jesus.
> > > >
> > > > Jesus was Jewish and was the anti-type of the prophetic
> > > > symbols that were given to them..The apostle Paul based
> > > > much of his evangelical efforts on the Jewish scriptures.
> > >
> > > There was no Old Testament basis for believing that Jesus was the
> > > Messiah. For example, the "Suffering Servant" of the book of Isaiah
> > > refers to the Jewish nation, not Jesus of Nazareth.
> >
> > There is plenty of evidence for it, and Jesus showed his disciples where he
> > was to be found in the OT after his resurrection. The “suffering
servant”
> > is not mentioned in the book of Isaiah under such a title, or anywhere
else,
> > it is a concept only. And yet in the Book of Isaiah there are several
> > references to him there as in the Book of Psalms and elsewhere. Isaiah
> > chapter 53 clearly speaks of Jesus and even today many young and a few
older
> > Jews who were taught to hate Jesus when shown that chapter, repent and
> > choose
> > to follow Jesus as they could see Jesus, crucified, for them.
>
> Isaiah 53 *is* about the suffering servant. Did your friend Jesus
> forget to tell you that as you studied it?
Nope. And as I told you above that is a term of men, a conceptual
understanding of the mind.
>
>
> > If you want to discuss/argue the situation you really should read with the
> > intention of understanding, the Bible so as to familiarize yourself with it
> > and not speak from the standpoint of hearsay. In a court or understanding,
> > hearsay is not permissible.
>
> Maybe you should branch out to include some Bible commentaries with
> your Bible studied that can familiarize you with the subject. That
> way you wouldn't look like an ignoramus when confronting common topics
> like the suffering servant of Isaiah 52-53.
Perhaps to you it seems like that. But from what you specified above how can
you say or state that Israel is a "Suffering servant”? Who do they serve as
a nation or peoples. Given that the nation was destroyed in 70AD and not
resurrected until 1948?
>
>
> > > > > > > Look at the "Jewish" rebellions -- plural -- if you want to know
> > > > > > > why the Romans would want to do that.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That's for sure. The Romans slaughtered them big time in 70 AD.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jerusalem_%2870_CE%29
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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