XPost: alt.paranormal, alt.atheism, alt.conspiracy   
   XPost: alt.religion.christian   
   From: none@none.non   
      
   On Sep 22, 2025, Vincent Maycock wrote   
   (Message-ID:):   
      
   > On Mon, 22 Sep 2025 17:38:06 -0700, None  wrote:   
   >   
   > > On Sep 22, 2025, Vincent Maycock wrote   
   > > (Message-ID:):   
   > >   
   > > > On Mon, 22 Sep 2025 12:46:08 -0700, None  wrote:   
   > > >   
   > > > > On Sep 22, 2025, Vincent Maycock wrote   
   > > > > (Message-ID:):   
   > > > >   
   > > > > > On Mon, 22 Sep 2025 09:47:38 -0700, None  wrote:   
   > > > > >   
   > > > > > > On Sep 22, 2025, Vincent Maycock wrote   
   > > > > > > (Message-ID:<51k2dkp25k552cd68ir6p4luk488q1qia2@4ax.com>):   
   > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > On Mon, 22 Sep 2025 03:12:45 -0700, "Andrew"   
   > > > > > > >   wrote:   
   > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > "JTEM" wrote in message news:10apq31$1vqea$1@dont-email.me...   
   > > > > > > > > > Andrew wrote:   
   > > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > > > Yes, but the Jews vehemently petitioned Pilate,   
   specifically for Him   
   > > > > > > > > > > to   
   > > > > > > > > > > be crucified.   
   > > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > > I don't believe it.   
   > > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > > It seems that the Romans, who invented the story, cast the   
   hated   
   > > > > > > > > > Jews as the bad guys.   
   > > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > > But they were Jews themselves who wrote what happened..   
   > > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > > Judaism was the main competition for the early Christian church,   
   so   
   > > > > > > > they tried to make "the Jews" look as bad as possible when they   
   made   
   > > > > > > > up their stories about Jesus.   
   > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > In whose mind? Yours?   
   > > > > > >   
   > > > > > > The believers in Jesus as the Messiah were all Jews in the   
   beginning.   
   > > > > >   
   > > > > > But then they branched off, theologically, leaving an emotional rift   
   > > > > > between Jews and Messianic Jews. Refusal to follow Jesus as the   
   > > > > > Messiah did not leave first-century Jews in Christians' good graces.   
   > > > >   
   > > > > Theology is not of God, but of mans understandings. It is a false   
   > > > > understanding because it stems from the mind of men who speculate on   
   who   
   > > > > God   
   > > > > is, and it is NOT definitive. Never depend on it as having full wisdom   
   and   
   > > > > knowledge. It is often misleading and serves to confuse, and for that   
   > > > > reason   
   > > > > many denominations err and there is separation and not a common bond.   
   > > >   
   > > > To say "Christ is risen" is a theological statement in addition to   
   > > > being an attempt at history.   
   > >   
   > > To whose way of thinking as there were over 500 witnesses of it. Plus to   
   > > think that someone was trying to create history is foolish, for such   
   > > attempts   
   > > have been tried similar to that, but were always disproven, and or been   
   > > discredited soon afterwards.   
   >   
   > Paul *claimed* that 500 witnesses saw him, but who was counting,   
   > right? And are you seriously claiming that attempts to create history   
   > are always unsuccessful? Do you believe all the stories promulgated   
   > by the Mormons, for example?   
      
   Paul never said that. When the book of Mormons does not agree with scripture   
   then their teachings are fully suspect. Many are seemingly nice people on the   
   outside. But on weekends the roads from Salt Lake City out of town on Friday   
   nights and sat mornings are packed to LV and north also, out of state for   
   casinos, etc. and on Sunday evenings it is the reverse. I am also very   
   familiar with many and know some of the ins n outs I will say no more about   
   them.   
   >   
   >   
   > > > > > So they vilified the non-Messianic Jews (referred to as simply "the   
   > > > > > Jews"), blaming them for Jesus' death and attacking Jewish sects like   
   > > > > > the Pharisees as they wrote the Gospels.   
   > > > >   
   > > > > That, my friend, is misleading and without understanding. They were to   
   be   
   > > > > blamed for the Death of Christ, and they knew it at the time.   
   > > >   
   > > > Even the Jews who had nothing to do with Jesus' crucifixion (e.g.,   
   > > > children)?   
   > >   
   > > All the ones in that crowd that proclaimed it were accepting the   
   > > responsibility and with such emphasis that they were fully willing to hold   
   > > their children and their children’s children as culpable as well. They   
   did   
   > > so knowing full well the severity of doing such a thing before God and Man,   
   > > and people in that culture did not take such things likely as they   
   > > considered themselves bound by their words.   
   >   
   > Was it the children's fault that they were supposedly indoctrinated   
   > that way?   
      
   Is it your fault that your were born into a sin nature because of Adam Fall?   
   And are you powerless to seek and receive deliverance from that condition?   
   >   
   >   
   > > > > Mat 27:24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, butthat   
   rather a   
   > > > > tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the   
   multitude,   
   > > > > saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.   
   > > >   
   > > > Baloney.   
   > >   
   > > The story is well known, as is the story of what his wife saw In a dream   
   and   
   > > relayed to him at the trial.   
   >   
   > It is well-known, but it's probably apocryphal.   
      
   Any excuse to justify the choices you make.   
   >   
   >   
   > > > > Mat 27:25 Then answered all the people, and said, His bloodbe on us,   
   and   
   > > > > on our children.   
   > > >   
   > > > Which is exactly what the early Christian church *wanted* them to have   
   > > > said, so they could more easily differentiate themselves from their   
   > > > Jewish beginnings and neighbors.   
   > >   
   > > The early church were jewish believers in Christ, and their relatives who   
   > > did   
   > > not believe in Jesus they for certain did not want them to be alienated.   
   You   
   > > are just blowing smoke, speaking things without thinking and with a knee   
   > > jerk   
   > > reaction. The church you were mosr familiar with was no more related to   
   > > Jesus   
   > > than the JW. And to take those ideas and place that understanding on other   
   > > is a great error.   
   >   
   > No, they wanted to go beyond Judaism. That's why they argued that   
   > Jewish ceremonial laws like kosher food didn't apply to Christians and   
   > newly converted Gentiles.   
      
   Yet they rigidly followed the Law Covenant in most areas. We have already   
   discussed that in part, not long ago. What did they know about Grace? And why   
   have many departed from them?   
   >   
   >   
   > > > > > > The priests were the ones who stirred up the population against   
   Jesus.   
   > > > > > > Not   
   > > > > > > all, as there were some who were followers of Jesus secretly. The   
   High   
   > > > > > > Priest   
   > > > > > > of Israel at the time of the birth of Jesus believed that the   
   Messiah   
   > > > > > > was   
   > > > > > > coming, were looking for him, and even recognized Jesus as the   
   Messiah   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)