From: nospam@127.0.0.1   
      
   On 2020-07-18 11:56 AM, Alain Fournier wrote:   
   > Personally, I don't see the point. I'm waiting for Starship and New   
   > Armstrong to fly. Once those rockets are flying (at least one of them),   
   > making plans for Lunar missions will be much easier. If those rockets   
   > work as expected, it seems to me that someone somewhere will obviously   
   > decide to plan a mission, if not to the moon, then to Mars, probably both.   
      
   While I largely agree, I credit Dr. Zubrin for often pointing out the   
   path not taken. (Mars Direct, Moon Direct, etc.). I used to be a critic   
   of the Zubrin approach, esp. one-way crewed missions to Mars. Still not   
   a particular fan of that idea, but I have to give credit to Dr. Zubrin   
   for making a whole lot more from a whole lot less.   
      
   We actually have largely in hand the infrastructure needed to go back to   
   the Moon. In Falcon and Dragon. Modifications would be needed but not   
   necessarily massive changes. Instead we wait for better solutions,   
   whether it be SLS/Orion/EUS/Artemis-lander or Starship or New Armstrong.   
      
   SLS/Orion/... being the worst examples in my opinion.   
      
   I am convinced we could be back on the Moon within a few years time had   
   the money spent on SLS/Orion etc. instead been used to evolve Falcon and   
   Crew Dragon. I don't see the compelling reason to wait for Starship.   
   It'll be grand once it is there, but NASA didn't need to wait for it but   
   could have invested in what SpaceX already has at hand today. If only.   
      
   Dave   
      
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