From: alain245@videotron.ca   
      
   On Oct/12/2020 at 13:34, Greg (Strider) Moore wrote :   
   > "Alain Fournier"  wrote in message news:rm1mm4$12u$1@dont-email.me...   
   >>   
   >> On Oct/12/2020 at 09:15, Greg (Strider) Moore wrote :   
   >>> "Dean Markley"  wrote in message   
   >>> news:b3ba9dee-3b09-479a-86a8-4a5698b98222n@googlegroups.com...   
   >>>>   
   >>>> On Saturday, October 10, 2020 at 11:46:52 AM UTC-4, Alain Fournier   
   >>>> wrote:   
   >>>>> Imagine you are out one night and you see a plane flying over your   
   >>>>> head.   
   >>>>> Someone might note that it is 10 km high. Now imagine that exactly   
   >>>>> behind the plane is the Andromeda galaxy. No one is going to say t hat   
   >>>>> the galaxy is 2.5 million light years high, one would say it is 2.5   
   >>>>> million light years away. Conversely, for the plane no one would   
   >>>>> say it   
   >>>>> is 10 km away if it is directly over head. So at what point does   
   >>>>> something cease to be up and starts to be far.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Now this might seem like being only semantics, and it is. But I think   
   >>>>> that discussing this particular point of semantics sheds light on how   
   >>>>> people perceive space. I have my own opinion on the matter but I will   
   >>>>> give it only after others have given their opinion, because I don't   
   >>>>> want   
   >>>>> this thread to be about discussing my opinion. I want it to be about   
   >>>>> seeing what are the different opinions out there.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Alain Fournier   
   >>>> I suspect it is mostly human nature.  At least around here, we   
   >>>> consider anything north of us to be "up" there.  Conversely,   
   >>>> anything south is "down" there.  Being on the east coast, anything   
   >>>> west is "out" there.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Dean   
   >>>   
   >>> I suspect anything that's within Earth's atmosphere is "high" and   
   >>> even in most cases, if it's within the gravitational influence "high"   
   >>> often applies.   
   >>> Beyond that I think it's "out there" or "away".   
   >>   
   >> So for you the moon is high not away?   
   >>   
   >>   
   >> Alain Fournier   
   >   
   > Like I said, "even in most cases". I've heard both.   
      
   Personally I wouldn't say the Moon is high, at least not in the sense   
   that an air-plane is high, not in the sense of distance from the ground.   
   I might say that the Moon is high as we would say the sun is high at   
   noon, or even simply say high noon. But that isn't an indication of   
   distance but rather an indication of position in the sky. On the other   
   hand if we say that an air-plane is high, it can very well be low on the   
   horizon, what we are talking about when we say that an air-plane is   
   high, is the distance between the plane and the ground.   
      
   So why wouldn't I say that the Moon is 380,000 km high? For me it isn't   
   a question of gravitational influence, it is a question of geometry. If   
   someone on the Moon looks at Earth he doesn't see the "ground". He sees   
   a ball with stars around it. Someone in an air-plane can't see stars   
   around the Earth, they might see stars in one direction and Earth in   
   another, but if you see stars in one direction, you see Earth in the   
   opposite direction. From the Moon, you can easily see that Earth doesn't   
   fill half the directions.   
      
   For me, to be far enough from Earth to see it not as half (or nearly   
   half) of all directions is where I would sense being far from Earth, not   
   just high. I would put it at about 2000 km. Below that, even if   
   technically Earth doesn't fill half the sky, you don't easily see that   
   it fills less than half the sky.   
      
   Of course as I said from the onset, this is just semantics. And I am   
   very far from being an expert in semantics. So my opinion here is just   
   that, an opinion. Still if some of you have other opinions on where you   
   start being far, I would like to hear them. I think that gives an   
   interesting perspective on your perception of space.   
      
      
   Alain Fournier   
      
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