From: snidely.too@gmail.com   
      
   Frank Scrooby was thinking very hard :   
   > Greetings all,   
   >   
   > <>   
   >   
   > "memorandum of understanding" are easy and cheap to draw up, and look pretty   
   > for the clueless press.   
   >   
   > Bending metal and testing metal is expensive and hard. Getting said bent and   
   > tested metal anywhere useful (preferably without killing a bunch of people)   
   > is even more expensive and harder.   
   >   
   > In short I'll believe it when I see it.   
   >   
   > I don't doubt that that China and Russia have the knowledge and even some of   
   > the expertise, but realistically:   
   >   
   > What has Russia done in space in the last twenty years except build   
   > cookie-cutter copies of the Soyuz and Progress, and their launch vehicle, and   
   > mostly get them to ISS on time? No great interplanetary probes, no new   
   > modules for ISS, no independent space station development.   
      
   New module for ISS scheduled to launch in July.   
      
   > The Chinese launched a couple of people into space, and even a short lived   
   > space station where (I think) 3 astronauts had fun and did experiments for a   
   > couple of days. Then??? Nothing on the human in space front. No follow up   
   > program, no Chinese astronauts going to ISS.   
      
   Moon lander, Mars orbiter with upcoming Mars lander attempt, a whole   
   flock of new rockets.   
      
   > Musk and SpaceX have a better chance of building a lunar orbiting space   
   > station first. Musk probably is spending more money on SpaceX that the   
   > Russians are on their space program.   
      
   Russia does have a recent history of many new paper rockets, and budget   
   shortfalls have been blamed for workmanship issues.   It looks like   
   Russia is spending $2 billion annually, or about 10% of NASA's budget.   
   The Starship development program bandies about a figure of $5 billion   
   to complete.  (That's over about 5 years at this point, no?)   
      
      
   It is quite possible that Russia will provide the human space flight   
   expertise and China will provide the nav and guidance.  It almost   
   certainly makes "far away" cheaper for Russia.   
      
   Musk is pushing an aggressive schedule, but the Chinese seem to be as   
   well.  Make of it what you will.   
      
   /dps   
      
   --   
   "That’s where I end with this kind of conversation: Language is   
   crucial, and yet not the answer."   
     Jonathan Rosa, sociocultural and linguistic anthropologist,   
   Stanford.,2020   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)