XPost: alt.home.repair, rec.food.baking   
   From: NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com   
      
   In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 29 Sep 2023 05:20:47 -0400, Bradley   
    wrote:   
      
   >On 9/29/2023 5:02 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:   
   >>> I just noticed this oven has a "self cleaning" feature, which, I think,   
   >>   
   >> That was going to be my question.  Why are you screwing around with   
   >> ammonia when you can just use the self-cleaning feature?  I haven't   
   >> seen an oven without self-clean in about 30 years.   
   >   
   >People who use self-cleaning features of ovens   
      
   I don't use the oven much and as I said, I've used self-cleaning a bunch   
   of times, maybe 6 times in 40 years.  How much environmental damage does   
   6 times do in comparison to everything else I do?    We're only   
   suggesting to you that you use it once.   
      
   >and then they cry about   
   >global warming   
      
   I don't cry about global warming.  I think we've already lost the battle   
   and there will be dire consequences.   We can delay them somewhat, but I   
   don't dicuss it.   
      
      
   >are why I don't plan on using the self-cleaning feature.   
   >   
   >>> Anyone use the self cleaning feature?   
   >>> Does it work?   
   >>   
   >> Yes, and yes.  Your oven might be too far gone for the self-clean   
   >> feature to be effective.   
   >   
   >I just read the Consumer Reports on self-cleaning ovens. They say it works,   
   >but there are a lot of indications that it breaks the ovens too.   
      
   Below you say 1%.  How is this not like incandescent light bulbs that   
   burn out when you turn them on.  Does that mean turning on a light bulb   
   burns it out?  It's just the straw that breaks the camel's back.   
   >   
   >Consumer Reports specifically said one percent of the ovens break down due   
   >to the self cleaning feature being used.   
   >   
   >>> If I admit that, you'll think I haven't been maintaining the home.   
   >>   
   >> You haven't been maintaining the oven if it's crusted up with burned   
   >> food.   
   >   
   >That's a good thing.   
   >It's like you telling me I haven't wasted our precious water watering my   
   >lawn or washing my car or taking three or four baths a day.   
   >   
   >Not wasting resources is a good thing.   
      
   This is a popular response technique.  I don't know if it's listed in   
   the list of logical fallacies, but it should be.  That is:   
      
   Cindy writes about one specific thing that you consider *wasting*   
   resources, and you reply about any sort of extra use of resources, as if   
   Cindy had written about the group of them.   
      
   >You seem to think it's a bad thing.   
      
   And here you do it again.   Cindy said nothing of the sort.   
      
   And who says that it's wasting?   Why is it wasting anymore than any   
   other use of resources?  YOU are the one complaining about caked on dirt   
   on  your oven.  If you or the previous owner had cleaned it more often,   
   it wouldn't be like that.  So it's failure to use resources, either Easy   
   Off and human effort or Self-cleaning, that created the problem you are   
   complaining about.   --- So now the question is, is using self-cleaning   
   worse for moral or environmental reasons, without corresponding benefit,   
   than cleaning it by hand.   Should one drive downtown when he can drive   
   to a bus-stop and take a bus?   Should one drive to a city an hour away   
   when he can drive to the bus station and take a bus?  May one mow the   
   lawn with a power lawn mower or must he use a manual one?   
      Should one accept a job that requires driving a car 60 minutes when   
   he could take a worse job that is 30 minutes away?   
      There are hundreds of such questions involving use of resources.   
      
   >   
   >It's not.   
   >It's a good thing.   
   >   
   >It's like a BBQ.   
   >It's _supposed_ to be all black.   
      
   What?  You were the one who started this by complaining about it,   
   weren't you?   
      
   And no, the oven is not supposed to be black inside.  In the best   
   possible world, it would look like it did when it was new.   
      
   >>> The reason I cleaned it is a woman had all four limbs amputated recently in   
   >>> the news because she ate uncooked tilapia fish so I wanted to put a   
   >>   
   >> I think the moral of that story is:  don't eat tilapia.  It's nasty   
   >> stuff.  Spend a little more on fish that doesn't eat poop (when no   
   >> other source of nutrition is available).   
      
   First I heard about this, Cindy.  I thought if you cooked the fish until   
   the translucent flesh turned white, that was enough.  ??????   
   >   
   >You can tell others to waste their money - but I don't waste anything.   
      
   I'm sure you do.  I too try not to waste anything.  My parents grew up   
   poor and I was raised that way.  But it's inevitable.   Even my parents   
   ended up wasting sometimes.   
      
   Do you wash dishes under running water, instead of using a dishpan   
   filled with water and soap and another for rinsing?  Washing under   
   running water is wasteful.   
      
   Do you use the dish washer for mildly dirty dishes without a full   
   dishwasher.   This requires algebra and 4 variables but sometiems it's   
   wasteful to use the dishwasher, certainly if it's not full.  I think   
   sometimes it's the opposite of wasteful but I'm not sure.   
      
   >I use the bones of the Tilapia as one of the layers of my fertilizer.   
   >   
   >And yes, the fertilizer has _all_ the components that it should have.   
   >Pee. Poop. Kitchen scraps. And Tilapia.   
   >   
   >If you don't make your own fertilizer, then you are wasting our resources   
   >becaue you have to use Nitrogen made by the Bessler process.   
   >   
   >Which is something only Republicans can afford to do.   
      
   LOL   
      
   >And which is something only Democrats lie about saying they don't do it.   
      
   ROTFLOL   
      
   >Bear in mind, both Democrats and Republicans are liars.   
   >They just lie in different ways.   
   >   
   >The Democrats waste our resources but they cry about it.   
   >The Republicans waste our resources but they don't care about it.   
   >   
   >You can choose which one you are - but I'm neither.   
   >I don't waste our resources if I don't have to.   
   >   
   >>> Anyone know what's the best chemical to clean an oven?   
   >>> It has black baked on crud everywhere.   
   >>   
   >> I suppose you can't jump in a time machine and properly maintain the   
   >> oven to begin with.   
   >   
   >You seem to think this "proper maintenenance" matters.   
   >It doesn't.   
   >   
   >You clean it when it gets dirty.   
   >Just like you clean your penis.   
      
   There is a  recent notion that if one uses the "proper" medical term for   
   a person's private parts it's acceptable to discuss them in mixed   
   company.  That is not true. It's a degradation of society not to use a   
   euphemism.   
   >   
   >> Buy some oven cleaner.  That's what it's for.  It's formulated to   
   >> stick to the oven walls while it works.   
   >   
   >Again. Oven Cleaner is a waste of resources.   
   >It's 1% lye and 99% wasteful crap that goes into the atmosphere.   
      
   When you use soap, it all goes down the drain. Isnt that wasteful?   
   >   
   >I'll make my own lye with table salt in water plus two carbon electrodes   
   >and a 12VDC car battery if I have to but I'm not wasting our precious   
   >resources on highly marketed and packaged 1% ingredients like you suggest.   
   >   
   >> Don't try heating the oven while Easy Off is in there.   
   >   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
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