From: benlizro@ihug.co.nz   
      
   On 28/06/2024 12:05 p.m., HenHanna wrote:   
   >   
   > how old is this Adam Funk?   40's  ?    50's ???   
   >   
   > does he always sound Stupid?   
   >   
   >   
   >  >  > But I'm surprised there aren't native Japanese words for some of   
   >  >  > these:   
   >   
   >   
   >   
   >>   
   >> Re: Names of D&D-type monsters in Japanese   
   >>   by: Ross Clark - Wed, 26 Jun 2024 15:04   
   >>   
   >>   
   >> On 27/06/2024 1:16 a.m., Adam Funk wrote:   
   >>  > As I mentioned in another thread a few weeks ago, I've been watching   
   >>  > the _Delicious in Dungeon_ anime, with Japanese sound & English   
   >>  > subtitles. I noticed that a lot of the monsters & some other bits of   
   >>  > D&D-ish jargon are clearly Japanese adaptations of English words. I   
   >>  > clearly heard similar-sounding words for "undine" & "dungeon", and   
   >>  > I've also collected translations from the list of episode titles.   
   >>  >   
   >>  > It makes sense to me that they would adapt words for monsters from   
   >>  > "Western traditions":   
   >>  >   
   >>  >   basilisk = Bajirisuku   
   >>  >   orcs = ÅŒku   
   >>  >   kelpie = KerupÄ«   
   >>  >   dryad = Doraiado   
   >>  >   cockatrice = Kokatorisu   
   >>  >   harpy = HÄ�pÄ«   
   >>  >   griffin = Gurifin   
   >>  >   golem = GÅ   
   remu   
   >>  >   
   >>  > and real foods of Western origin:   
   >>  >   
   >>  >   omelet = Omuretsu   
   >>  >   sorbet = Sorube   
   >>  >   
   >>  >   
   >>  > But I'm surprised there aren't native Japanese words for some of   
   >>  > these:   
   >>  >   
   >>  >   tentacles = Tentakurusu   
   >>  >   red dragon = Reddo Doragon [aren't dragons in Japanese tradition?   
   >>  >                               "reddo"   
   looks suspicious]   
   >>  >   sea serpent = ShÄ«sÄ�pento   
   >>  >   shapeshifter = Sheipu ShifutÄ� [could be translated]   
   >>  >   ice golem = Aisu GÅ   
   remu [I get golem but "aisu" looks suspicious]   
   >>  >   
   >>  >   dumplings = Danpuringu [why not "gyoza"?]   
   >>  >   bacon and eggs = BÄ“kon'Eggu [I get bacon but "egg" is "Tamago"   
   >>  >                                elsewhere]   
   >>  >   
   >>  >   
   >>  > Comments, ideas?   
   >>  >   
   >>   
   >>   
   >> These English borrowings are just naming monsters, after all -- they're   
   >> not replacing existing Japanese words.   
   >>   
   >>   
   >> More generally, borrowed words often happily coexist with native words,   
   >> sometimes with a distinction of meaning. I recommend a little book by   
   >> Akira Miura, _English Loanwords in Japanese: A Selection_ (Tuttle,   
   >> 1979), which explains a lot of these.   
   >>   
   >>   
   >> Example: Japanese has /gyÅ«nyÅ«/ for 'cow's milk', but also /miruku/.   
   >>   
   >> "...in the usage of many Japanese...gyÅ«nyÅ« is fresh milk whereas miruku   
   >> is either warm milk served with sugar at a coffee shop or powdered milk,   
   >> or condensed milk sold in a can"   
   >   
   >   
   > this explanation  sounds  outdated by 30+ years.   
      
   Could well be. Note the publication date of the book.   
   But how does it "sound outdated"? Because we now have a better   
   explanation? or because Japanese usage has changed? Miura does note that   
   some Japanese are actually using miruku in place of gyÅ«nyÅ«,   
      
      
   >>   
   >>   
   >> ----------- i'd have expected  Ross Clark (a linguist)  to   
   >>               make a comment along the lines of...   
   >>   
   >>               in English... (pig, pork)   
   >>   
   >>        Cow (English) - Boeuf (French, meat)   
   >   
   >>        Sheep (English) - Mouton (French, meat)   
   >>   
      
   Yes, and no doubt some people asked "Why should we borrow a French word   
   when we already have a perfectly good word for sheep?"   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)