XPost: alt.usage.english   
   From: nospam@de-ster.demon.nl   
      
   Peter Moylan  wrote:   
      
   > On 05/07/24 06:28, J. J. Lodder wrote:   
   > > bertietaylor  wrote:   
   > >   
   > > [on the Dutch]   
   > >> Amazing lot, going to the ends of the Earth to grab whatever they could.   
   > >> Active!   
   > >   
   > > As far as Nagasaki, anyway.   
   > > The Dutch didn't grab anything there, they traded.   
   > > They were succesful in that, precisely because   
   > > they did not try to grab anything.   
   > > (that's what the Spanish and the Portugese were kicked out for)   
   >   
   > That was part of the reason. Another important part was that the Spanish   
   > and Portuguese tried to convert people to Christianity.   
      
   Worse than that, those they had converted participated   
   in the civil wars. (on the wrong side)   
      
   > One bit of information that the Dutch brought to Japan was the fact that   
   > there was more than one Christian religion, and that the Christians did   
   > not agree amongst themselves on religious questions.   
      
   The Dutch did something worse than that:   
   They showed the Shogun a copy of the Treaty of Tordesillas,   
   and asked a Jesuit who was present to translate it into Japanese.   
   The Shogun was not at all pleased to learn   
   that most of his country belonged to the king of Portugal,   
   by a Spanish/Portugese treaty. [1]   
      
   Jan   
      
   [1] The dividing line passes through northern Japan.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)