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   Message 296,119 of 297,461   
   Stefan Ram to Antonio Marques   
   Re: Official German spelling update   
   15 Jul 24 19:19:09   
   
   From: ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de   
      
   Antonio Marques  wrote or quoted:   
   >It still sounds odd to me. Christian says Dank is to be read as a mass   
   >noun, but I can't quite make that work.   
      
     So, I guess this, er . . . I wasn't initially aware that this   
     case needed more attention than your usual combo of two words!   
      
     Behind "vielen" ("many") usually stands a countable noun,   
     like in, "Bei vielen Adjektiven ist eine Steigerung . . ."   
     ("In the case of many adjectives, a gradation . . .").   
      
     When we want to express a high degree of something with an   
     uncountable masculine noun, we say "viel". For example, "Viel   
     Erfolg!" ("Much success!"), or "Viel Spaß!" ("Much fun!"). (From,   
     "Ich wünsche Ihnen viel Erfolg!" ["I wish you every success!"] and,   
     "Ich wünsche Ihnen viel Spaß! ["I wish you lots of fun!"].)   
      
     So, it should be "Viel Dank!" ("Much thank!") - this isn't a wish,   
     but it should also be in the accusative, as it would probably be   
     shortened from "Ich sage Ihnen viel Dank!" ("I'm expressing to you   
     much thank!"), where it would need to be in the accusative.   
      
     If "Dank" was countable, we'd probably say *"Ich sagen Ihnen viele   
     Danke!" ("I'm giving you many thanks."), so not "vielen" either.   
     (Nowadays, "thanks" is considered a noun with no plural.)   
      
     Nobody knows why the formula "Vielen Dank!" got stuck and   
     is used instead of "Viel Dank!". And since we don't really   
     understand the expression "Vielen Dank!" we can't analyze   
     it further. It's opaque to us.   
      
     Anywho, my initial response was way off base - I clearly   
     underestimated the complexity of your query. My bad on that one!   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)   

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