XPost: alt.usage.english   
   From: hr.usenet@email.de   
      
   On Fri, 26 Jul 2024, Antonio Marques wrote:   
      
   > Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2024 16:10:44   
   > From: Antonio Marques    
   > Newsgroups: sci.lang, alt.usage.english   
   > Subject: Re: PTD was the most-respected of the AUE regulars ...   
   >   
   > Stefan Ram  wrote:   
   > > Antonio Marques  wrote or quoted:   
   > >> Stefan Ram  wrote:   
   > >>>> ˈɹʷʊˑuɿ ᵊɹ̩   
   > >>>> and this guy was like, "I don't think that 'u' is stressed!".   
   > >> (Sorry, but I can't make sense either of the characters you wrote above   
   > >   
   > >   Here's the whole shebang in ASCII:   
   > >   
   > > MODIFIER LETTER VERTICAL LINE - meaning the next syllable is stressed   
   > > LATIN SMALL LETTER TURNED R - to me that a bunched American r   
   > > MODIFIER LETTER SMALL W - that r is rounded! (because it's initial)   
   > > LATIN SMALL LETTER UPSILON - open "u"   
   > > MODIFIER LETTER HALF TRIANGULAR COLON - that open "u" is half-lenghtened   
   > > LATIN SMALL LETTER U - a [u]   
   > > LATIN SMALL LETTER REVERSED R WITH FISHHOOK - American "t" of "router"   
   > > SPACE - I used it to end the syllable, similar to how Wells uses it   
   > > MODIFIER LETTER SMALL SCHWA - meaning some speakers insert a schwa here   
   > > LATIN SMALL LETTER TURNED R - another bunched American r   
   > > COMBINING VERTICAL LINE BELOW - which is syllabic   
   >   
   > So you were trying to do a 'fully' precise transcription of _router_ in   
   > (some dialect of) american, is that it? Then the characters weren't   
   > garbled, I simply had no idea of the context (it's very rare that one would   
   > not write that inside [] in sci.lang).   
      
   I am very skeptical about "fully precise" transcriptions. In every   
   language I know, the range of pronunciations that native speakers produce   
   and that other native speakers perceive as distinct and free from dialect   
   is much broader than a fully precise transcription would specify. The only   
   thing one could describe that way – if at all feasible which I doubt – is   
   the idiolect of a single person; perhaps also a dialect forced on   
   newsreaders in a single country where any personal or regional accent is   
   strictly forbidden for newsreaders.   
      
   > >   . The "IPA" used above ain't your nana's brew - it's more   
   > >   like a souped-up Wells model with some Canepari flair and my   
   > >   own secret sauce thrown in. But hey, that "half-long" symbol?   
   > >   That's straight-up textbook IPA, no bells and whistles!   
   >   
   > It's half a long marker, which we usually write : for in here.   
      
   Yes, that its shape; and its meaning is to mark medium length of the vowel.   
      
   I think it is seldom used. I have used it for a language where the word   
   stress is primarily realised by slightly lengthening the vowel in a way   
   that it gets longer than an unstressed vowel but not so long as it would   
   in another language where vowel length is phonemic irrespective of stress.   
      
   Example:   
      
   [safaɾi] : indicates neither stress nor length because both are regular   
   [saˈfaɾi] : indicates only stress without telling how it is realised   
   [safaˑɾi] : indicates only length but not syllable structure   
   [saˈfaˑɾi] : indicates stress and how it is realised   
      
   Depends on what the readers already know.   
      
   I am not an expert, maybe that IPA usage is wrong.   
      
   --   
   Helmut Richter   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)