From: wugi@brol.invalid   
      
   Op 23/10/2025 om 1:42 schreef Ross Clark:   
   > On 23/10/2025 10:31 a.m., DDeden wrote:   
   >>   
   >> I can make no sense of the claimed etymology of 'tall' at etymology   
   >> online nor at Wiktionary.   
   >>   
   >> Wik: From Middle English tall, talle, tal (“seemly, becoming,   
   >> handsome, good-looking, excellent, good, valiant, lively in speech,   
   >> bold, great, large, big”), from Old English *tæl, ġetæl (“swift,   
   >> ready, having mastery of”), from Proto-Germanic *talaz (“submissive,   
   >> pliable, obedient”), from Proto-Indo-European *dol-, *del- (“to aim,   
   >> calculate, adjust, reckon”).   
   >>   
   >> Does anyone agree with that?   
   >   
   > I don't think I've ever even looked into this word's origins before.   
   > It's surprising.   
   >   
   > Watkins' version has PIE *del 'to recount, count' (also the root of   
   > TELL, TALE, TALK). The only intermediate form he cites is OE getæl   
   > 'quick, ready' (from West Germanic *(ge-)tala. This seems essentially   
   > like what you found, but a lot needs filling in.   
   >   
   > So to OED: The words "uncertain" and "obscure" both appear early in   
   > their etymological discussion.   
   >   
   > With Old English getæl (plural ge-tale) 'swift, prompt' they compare Old   
   > High German gizal, Middle High German gezal 'quick', and more remotely   
   > Gothic untals 'unaccommodating, uncompliant, disobedient' and Old   
   > Northumbrian untal 'evil, improper'. This establishes a likely Germanic   
   > origin.   
   >   
   > I can see a "quick" ~ "obedient" connection there, but the relation to   
   > *del is not immediately apparent. Your PIE and PGmc glosses suggest a   
   > possible bridge, I guess.   
   >   
   > OED's English senses in order:   
   >   
   > I.1  Quick, prompt, ready, active (one uncertain OE use, otherwise 1374)   
   > I.2a  Meet, becoming, seemly, proper, decent  (1440)   
   > I.2b  Comely, goodly, fair, handsome; elegant, fine (1450)   
   > I.3   Good at arms, stout or strong in combat; doughty, brave, bold,   
   > valiant (1529)   
   >   
   > II.6.a.i  High in stature, of more than average height (person or   
   > animal)  (1530)   
   > II.7      (used of other things: ships, trees, mountains)  (1548)   
   >   
   >   
   > This looks a little easier to believe. It's a peculiarly English   
   > situation. In my experience, looking for a word for "tall" in other   
   > languages, it will almost always be the same as "long" or "big" or "high".   
      
   In "my" other language, Dutch, it would be "groot", big, vs. "klein",   
   small. (Mockingly it might be "lang" vs. "kort".)   
      
   E. "tall" < "ge-t~al" just looks like our "getal", number, from   
   "tellen", to count, which doesn't make much sense, though mentioned in   
   the above uncertain etymologies...   
      
   --   
   guido wugi   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)