From: user5108@newsgrouper.org.invalid   
      
   Ross Clark  posted:   
      
   > On 23/10/2025 10:31 a.m., DDeden wrote:   
   > >   
   > > I can make no sense of the claimed etymology of 'tall' at etymology online   
   nor at Wiktionary.   
   > >   
   > > Wik: From Middle English tall, talle, tal (“seemly, becoming, handsome,   
   good-looking, excellent, good, valiant, lively in speech, bold, great, large,   
   big”), from Old English *tæl, ġetæl (“swift, ready, having mastery   
   of”), from Proto-   
   Germanic *talaz (“submissive, pliable, obedient”), from Prot   
   -Indo-European *dol-, *del- (“to aim, calculate, adjust, reckon”).   
   > >   
   > > Does anyone agree with that?   
   >   
   > I don't think I've ever even looked into this word's origins before.   
   > It's surprising.   
   >   
   > Watkins' version has PIE *del 'to recount, count' (also the root of   
   > TELL, TALE, TALK). The only intermediate form he cites is OE getæl   
   > 'quick, ready' (from West Germanic *(ge-)tala. This seems essentially   
   > like what you found, but a lot needs filling in.   
   >   
   > So to OED: The words "uncertain" and "obscure" both appear early in   
   > their etymological discussion.   
   >   
   > With Old English getæl (plural ge-tale) 'swift, prompt' they compare Old   
   > High German gizal, Middle High German gezal 'quick', and more remotely   
   > Gothic untals 'unaccommodating, uncompliant, disobedient' and Old   
   > Northumbrian untal 'evil, improper'. This establishes a likely Germanic   
   > origin.   
   >   
   > I can see a "quick" ~ "obedient" connection there, but the relation to   
   > *del is not immediately apparent. Your PIE and PGmc glosses suggest a   
   > possible bridge, I guess.   
   >   
   > OED's English senses in order:   
   >   
   > I.1  Quick, prompt, ready, active (one uncertain OE use, otherwise 1374)   
   > I.2a  Meet, becoming, seemly, proper, decent  (1440)   
   > I.2b  Comely, goodly, fair, handsome; elegant, fine (1450)   
   > I.3   Good at arms, stout or strong in combat; doughty, brave, bold,   
   > valiant (1529)   
   >   
   > II.6.a.i  High in stature, of more than average height (person or   
   > animal)  (1530)   
   > II.7      (used of other things: ships, trees, mountains)  (1548)   
   >   
   >   
   > This looks a little easier to believe. It's a peculiarly English   
   > situation. In my experience, looking for a word for "tall" in other   
   > languages, it will almost always be the same as "long" or "big" or "high".   
      
      
      
   Thanks Ross and Wugi.   
      
   I may have found a reveal, linking stick and number to tall via tally.   
      
   Etymology Online: tally   
   mid-15c., talie, "scored stick used in record-keeping, piece of wood marked   
   with notches or scores to indicate amount owed or paid," also the record kept   
   on it, from Anglo-French tallie (early 14c., Old French taille "notch in a   
   piece of wood signifying    
   a debt"), Anglo-Latin talea (late 12c.), from Medieval Latin tallia, from   
   Latin talea "a cutting, rod, stick" (see tailor (n.), and compare the sense   
   history of score (n.)).   
      
      
   Wiktionary: tally https://share.google/qBZP2RxXarHKGA9Xg   
   Etymology 2   
   From Middle English talie, from Anglo-Norman tallie and Old French taille   
   (“notch in a piece of wood signifying a debt”), from Medieval Latin   
   tallia, from Latin talea (“a cutting, rod, stick”). Doublet of taille and   
   talea.   
      
   Seems more believable to me that tall linked to a long stick that was (read)   
   upright, like a tower is more noticeably upright than a cube, so perceived as   
   high stature.   
      
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