From: user5108@newsgrouper.org.invalid
Ross Clark posted:
> On 4/11/2025 12:13 a.m., DDeden wrote:
> >
> > I've been trying to determine if Malay tarian (dance) is cognate with
Tahitian ori Tahiti (hula-like dance)
> > are cognate, and if they relate to Malay tarikh (pull, of the hands)
regarding the style of dancing recently seen in Malaysia during President
Trump's visit to Malaysia, or to the action of scrubbing, scraping with the
hands.
> >
> > I tried using Blust et al dictionary, but how to compare these words?
> >
> > ACD - Austronesian Comparative Dictionary Online - https://s
are.google/TR4RCOq9NpEmSHL6i
> >
> > Ai tells me ori and tarian aren't cognate, but I don't trust it.
> >
>
> I wouldn't either. But in this case, I don't see much to connect them.
> They have one syllable (-ri-) in common.
>
> Blust seems to have nothing at all for Malay tari(-an). If you use the
> "Finderlist" and look at reconstructions for "dance", there's nothing
> particularly suggestive. It may be unique to Malay.
>
> Tahitian 'ori seems to be a general term for dance, and has lots of
> Polynesian cognates (PPN *koli, sometimes *koni). Possible adjacent
> senses with the same form are "rejoice", "move around" and possibly
> "copulate". But I have no cognates beyond Polynesian.
Ai
Key Proto-Austronesian and Proto-Malayo-Polynesian Roots
sakaŋ (PMP): This root meant "bowlegged". It is the ancestor of the word for
various dances across Polynesia, which often involve bending the knees or
short, vigorous movements.
Māori: haka (part of kapa haka, meaning "group dance" or "war dance")
Samoan: saʻa
Tokelauan: haka
Rarotongan: ʻaka
Hawaiian: haʻa
sula or sulu (ancient Austronesian root): This root is thought to refer to
"circular motion" or "ritual walking".
Hawaiian: hula (which translates simply as "dance") is likely derived from
this root.
Samoan: siva is also linked to terms derived from this root that describe
movement and dancing.
Ta(r)ik (Dempwolff, a reconstructed PMP root): This root meant "round dance".
'ori (Proto-Polynesian): This root specifically refers to "dance". In some
languages, the reduplication ('o'ori) indicates plurality of the subject or
intensity of the action.
Diversity of Terms
Many Malayo-Polynesian languages use words for "dance" that are specific to
their regional development or refer to more generic terms for movement:
In some Philippine languages, pangalay (Tausug magpangalay) is a term for "to
dance", while Tausug magsayaw refers to a likely warrior dance.
In some Mindanao languages, the word for war dance is saut.
The general term for "dance" in modern Indonesian and Malay is tari (likely
from the PMP root Ta(r)ik), while sayaw is used in Tagalog.
Per Ai, I erred on tarikh : The Malayo-Polynesian word "tarikh" is not a
native Malayo-Polynesian word but was borrowed from Arabic. It comes directly
from the Arabic word tārīkh (تَارِيخ), which means "date" or
"history".
I was thinking of teh tarik, pulled tea, as when a tea vendor at a stall pours
tea from a height giving the illusion that the lower cup is pulling the tea
down.
Ai : The term "teh tarik" has a mixed etymology, with roots in both Chinese
and the Malayo-Polynesian language family.
"Teh" means "tea" and comes from the Hokkien Chinese word for tea.
"Tarik" means "pulled" or "to pull" and comes from the Malay word. This Malay
term originates from the Proto-Malayo-Polynesian word tazək, meaning "steep
angle".
The name literally translates to "pulled tea," a direct reference to the
unique preparation method where the hot tea is poured back and forth
repeatedly between two containers from a height, creating a frothy top and
cooling the drink.
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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