XPost: comp.theory, comp.ai.philosophy, sci.math   
   From: user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid   
      
   On 11/18/25 3:47 PM, Mike Terry wrote:   
   > On 18/11/2025 03:10, dart200 wrote:   
   >> On 11/17/25 7:07 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:   
   >>> On 2025-11-18, dart200  wrote:   
   >>>> On 11/17/25 4:31 PM, olcott wrote:   
   >>>>> On 11/17/2025 6:06 PM, dart200 wrote:   
   >>>>>> On 11/17/25 3:35 PM, olcott wrote:   
   >>>>>>> The halting problem is requiring deciders to   
   >>>>>>> compute information that is not contained in   
   >>>>>>> their input.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> ur agreeing with turing and the halting problem:   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> one cannot compute whether a machine halts or not from the string   
   >>>>>> describing the machine   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> That the halting problem limits computation   
   >>>>> is like this very extreme example:   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Predict who the next president of the United States   
   >>>>> will be entirely on the basis of √2 (square root of 2).   
   >>>>> That cannot be derived from the input.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> bruh, ur agreeing with the halting problem:   
   >>>>   
   >>>> one cannot take the string describing the machine, and use it to   
   >>>> compute   
   >>>> whether the machine described halts   
   >>>   
   >>> But that isn't true; you certainly can do that. Just not using one   
   >>> unified algorithm that works for absolutely all such strings.   
   >>>   
   >>> When it /does/ work, it's certainly not based on any input other than   
   >>> the string.   
   >>   
   >> yes i meant generally   
   >>   
   >> you also can't compute generally whether you can or cannot compute   
   >> whether a an machine description halts or not   
   >   
   > What does that mean though?   
   >   
   > It sounds like you're asking for a /single/ TM that given /any/ machine   
   > description D, must compute "whether or not D's halting is computable".   
   > [And saying no such single TM exists?]   
      
   yes, it takes /single/ machine input a outputs whether /any/ other   
   machine could compute the input machine's halting semantics.   
      
   > The problem is in the phrase within quotes.  Surely that phrase means   
   > "whether or not there exists a TM that computes whether the given D   
   > halts or not"?  If not, what does it mean?   
   >   
      
   i think you've got it   
      
   >   
   > Mike.   
   >   
      
   --   
   a burnt out swe investigating into why our tooling doesn't involve   
   basic semantic proofs like halting analysis   
      
   please excuse my pseudo-pyscript,   
      
   ~ nick   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
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