XPost: comp.theory, sci.math   
   From: polcott333@gmail.com   
      
   On 12/15/2025 2:09 AM, Tristan Wibberley wrote:   
   > The message body is Copyright (C) 2025 Tristan Wibberley except   
   > citations and quotations noted. All Rights Reserved except as noted in   
   > the sig.   
   >   
   > On 14/12/2025 16:16, polcott wrote:   
   >> On 12/14/2025 6:51 AM, Tristan Wibberley wrote:   
   >>> On 13/12/2025 19:50, olcott wrote:   
   >>>> On 12/13/2025 1:33 PM, Tristan Wibberley wrote:   
   >>>>> On 13/12/2025 16:44, olcott wrote:   
   >>>   
   >>>>>> Turing machine Deciders are a subset of this   
   >>>>>> where the value indicates accept or reject a   
   >>>>>> finite string by some criterion measure.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> I continue to reject the use of "accept" and "reject" here. And I also   
   >>>>> reject the use of "indicates" wrt to them.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> My goal is to have accepted definitions as my only basis.   
   >>>   
   >>> Oh! I just noticed it's a new statement with "by some criterion measure"   
   >>> which makes it excellent. I retract my rejection.   
   >>>   
   >>   
   >> Good.   
   >>   
   >> This is my first post on the halting Problem   
   >> https://groups.google.com/g/sci.logic/c/V7wzVvx8IMw/m/ggPE6a-60cUJ   
   >>   
   >> I worked for 15 years mostly on the basis of intuition.   
   >> Then 2 more years creating fully operational code. Then   
   >> 3 years of discussing this code.   
   >>   
   >> Now I am finally getting around to anchoring these   
   >> intuitions and my working code in standard definitions.   
   >>   
   >> My current working code.   
   >> https://github.com/plolcott/x86utm/blob/master/Halt7.c   
   >>   
   >> I had to refrain from learning the standard definitions   
   >> before now or they would have boxed me into the standard   
   >> views.   
   >>   
   >> My insights are entirely from slight nuances of meaning   
   >> that are abstracted away in the standard definitions.   
   >>   
   >> I had to carefully reverse-engineer the exact details   
   >> of what was actually happening before I could see what   
   >> nuances of meaning were being left out. Initially I   
   >> had to use my own non-standard terminology to do this.   
   >>   
   >> This is my first principle   
   >> All Turing machines only compute the mapping   
   >> from input finite strings to some value.   
   >   
   > My second correction of three that are needed (I will return to the   
   > third later once I've thought more):   
   >   
   > "value" is not defined, a first principle must be elementary (introduces   
   > terms of art but does not depend on them).   
   >   
   > Here are two alternatives to illuminate the matter, but I think they're   
   > not good enough:   
   >   
   > 1st alternative: You need a prior principle defining "value". That's not   
   > entirely intuitive though we pretend it is, like so much that you   
   > correctly find to be a problem.   
   >   
   > 2nd alternative: All Automatic Turing Machines compute only an output   
   > finite string from an input finite string.   
   >   
   > They're wrong because a turing machine has a state (m-configuration),   
   > whose change--and given a constant initial state then also itself--is,   
   > in effect, computed.   
   >   
   > The 3rd alternative is contingent as noted, a contingency whose premise   
   > I think you suppose:   
   >   
   > 3rd alternative, admissible when considering an ATM to be a physical   
   > machine rather than a mere formal system: An Automatic Turing Machine is   
   > one of those things restricted--at least in part--such that it computes   
   > nothing more than an output finite string along with its own halting   
   > state from an input finite string along with its own pre-nominated   
   > initial state.   
   >   
   >   
      
   Not clear enough to be understood.   
      
   --   
   Copyright 2025 Olcott

   
      
   My 28 year goal has been to make 
   
   "true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"
   
   reliably computable.

   
      
   This required establishing a new foundation
   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)