XPost: comp.theory, sci.math, comp.ai.philosophy   
   From: polcott333@gmail.com   
      
   On 12/24/2025 6:12 AM, Richard Damon wrote:   
   > On 12/23/25 11:44 PM, olcott wrote:   
   >> On 12/23/2025 10:09 PM, Richard Damon wrote:   
   >>> On 12/23/25 11:02 PM, olcott wrote:   
   >>>> On 12/23/2025 9:52 PM, Richard Damon wrote:   
   >>>>> On 12/23/25 10:44 PM, olcott wrote:   
   >>>>>> On 12/23/2025 9:01 PM, Richard Damon wrote:   
   >>>>>>> On 12/23/25 9:23 PM, olcott wrote:   
   >>>>>>>> On 12/23/2025 7:50 PM, Richard Damon wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>> On 12/23/25 7:08 PM, olcott wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>> On 12/23/2025 11:48 AM, Richard Damon wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>> On 12/23/25 12:24 PM, olcott wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/23/2025 10:59 AM, Richard Damon wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/23/25 11:43 AM, olcott wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/23/2025 9:34 AM, olcott wrote:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computes a total function D : Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject},   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> input alphabet. That is:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗,   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> according to one of two types of properties:   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    string itself, such as containing a particular   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    substring or satisfying a structural pattern.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    computational steps explicitly encoded by the input   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    specifies when interpreted as a machine description.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the subset   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of finite strings that are valid machine descriptions   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a property of the sequence of computational steps explicitly   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> encoded by the input string, i.e., the behavior that the   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>> input itself specifies.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, so why does that not apply to the encoding you gave   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> it to describe P?   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> If that input DOESN't encode the needed steps, you didn't   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>> give it the right encoding.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> The common meaning of the term "describe" does   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> not mean specifies an exactly sequence of steps.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> But the term-of-art does.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> Because is does not directly say that it specifies   
   >>>>>>>>>> an exact sequence of steps: experts in the field   
   >>>>>>>>>> of the theory of computation totally miss the very   
   >>>>>>>>>> subtle nuance THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> No, that is the meaning of describe as the term-of-art.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> It needs to be a complete description of the algorithm used by   
   >>>>>>>>> the machine, and that DOES describe, when combined with the   
   >>>>>>>>> input to that machine, the exact sequence of steps the machine   
   >>>>>>>>> will do.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> Did you not claim that the x86 instructions of a program are a   
   >>>>>>>>> suitable encoding for the input?   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> I guess you don't understand how word meaning works.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> (b) Semantic property: This only applies to the subset   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> of finite strings that are valid machine descriptions   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> a property of the sequence of computational steps explicitly   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> encoded by the input string, i.e., the behavior that the   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> input itself specifies.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> Every tiny nuance of meaning of every single word   
   >>>>>>>>>>>> is required.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> Right, which EXPLICITLY says that the behavior of the machine   
   >>>>>>>>>>> encoded (which is another term for describing) is a valid   
   >>>>>>>>>>> criteria that a decider must be able to be asked.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>> All you are doing is showing your utter stupidity.   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>> It defines P simulated by H as the correct answer.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> Nope, where does it say that?   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>> It says the computational steps encoded in the input string.   
   >>>>>>>>> That would be the UTM processing of the string.   
   >>>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> Maybe you fundamentally cannot pay very close   
   >>>>>>>> attention. On the other hand   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> Individuals with Asperger syndrome often   
   >>>>>>>> exhibit exceptional focus and persistence   
   >>>>>>>> when pursuing their interests or tasks.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> Which has not been renamed to a kind of   
   >>>>>>>> attention deficit by the morons in charge.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> I have hyper focused attention you have lack of   
   >>>>>>>> sufficient attention.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>> No, you are just ignoring the fact that you have been showen to   
   >>>>>>> be wrong, and not figuring out how to respond, just fall back to   
   >>>>>>> your normal proceedure of ignoring your error and repeating your   
   >>>>>>> false claim.   
   >>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> The key solution for this (if one exists) is for   
   >>>>>>>> you to read this over and over again until you   
   >>>>>>>> can directly see that nothing like the idea of   
   >>>>>>>> a UTM or direct execution is ever mentioned or   
   >>>>>>>> implied.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> A Turing-machine decider is a Turing machine D that   
   >>>>>>>> computes a total function D :  Σ∗ → {Accept,Reject},   
   >>>>>>>> where Σ∗ is the set of all finite strings over the   
   >>>>>>>> input alphabet. That is:   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> 1. Totality: For every finite string input w ∈ Σ∗,   
   >>>>>>>> D halts and outputs either Accept or Reject.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> 2. Decision basis: Each input string is evaluated   
   >>>>>>>> according to one of two types of properties:   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> (a) Syntactic property: a property of the input   
   >>>>>>>> string itself, such as containing a particular   
   >>>>>>>> substring or satisfying a structural pattern.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> (b) Semantic property: a property of the sequence of   
   >>>>>>>> computational steps explicitly encoded by the input   
   >>>>>>>> string, i.e., the behavior that the input itself   
   >>>>>>>> specifies when interpreted as a machine description.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>> The decider outputs Accept if the corresponding property   
   >>>>>>>> holds for the input and Reject otherwise.   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>>   
   >>>>>>>   
      
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