XPost: sci.math   
   From: PointedEars@web.de   
      
   Paul B. Andersen wrote:   
   > Den 24.11.2025 00:36, skrev Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn:   
   >> Paul B. Andersen wrote:   
   >>> Den 22.11.2025 20:19, skrev Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn:   
   >>>> Scot Deyanov wrote:   
   >>>>> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:   
   >>>>>> A manipulated clock is not a clock.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> When we say that time is what is measured with a clock we mean a device   
   >>>>>> that is not manipulated, that merely follows Nature.   
   >>>>> no shit sherlock, once that manipulation is done, that clock is a clock   
   >>>>> like everybody clock   
   >>>> Which part of "_not_ manipulated" did you not understand?   
   >>>   
   >>> It is however common to call the manipulated clock   
   >>> in a GPS satellite - a clock.   
   >>   
   >> The satellite's clock is not manipulated; never has been.   
   >   
   > The statement in Maciej Woźniak's idiotic post you responded   
   > to was: "it's a matter of how we decide to adjust clocks"   
   >   
   > The adjustment he referred to was that the rate of   
   > a GPS SV clock is adjusted down by (1 - 4.4647e-10) compared   
   > to a clock which is running at the rate defined by SI.   
      
   Doubtful.  I doubt that he has even understood the basics of how GPS works,   
   given his constant clueless babbling of "t' = t".   
      
   > Your response was: "A manipulated clock is not a clock."   
   >   
   > I interpreted that to mean that you called the adjustment   
   > of the SV clock rate a "manipulation".   
   >   
   > But OK, I accept that you don't call this adjustment a "manipulation":   
   >   
   > But what kind of manipulation of a clock makes it cease to be a clock?   
      
   When it ceases to measure a (proper) time.  For example, even the modified   
   GPS clocks still measure a (proper) time, just not the proper time where   
   they are because that turns out to be impractical (due to GR effects); they   
   measure something close to the proper time on the ground instead.   
      
   IOW: A clock is no longer a clock if someone or something manipulates it   
   *while it is in operation* (or when it ceases to operate properly).  (I   
   repeat: This does NOT happen with the atomic clocks aboard GNSS satellites.)   
      
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   PointedEars   
      
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