[continued from previous message]   
      
   >>> represent primitive theories within a larger heno-theory is intriguing.   
   >>>          This suggests that these fundamental mathematical domains are   
   >>> not merely separate disciplines but rather elements of a more   
   >>> comprehensive logical structure.   
   >>>          They are like the two sides of the same coin.   
   >>>      Pre-Geometric as a Primitive Theory:   
   >>>          The pre-geometric/pre-scientific world, as envisioned by   
   >>> Husserl and Derrida, can be seen as a primordial, primitive theory, an   
   >>> "ur-theory" that precedes and underlies all subsequent theoretical   
   >>> developments.   
   >>>          This "ur-theory" would contain the "ur-elements" that   
   >>> constitute the building blocks of geometry and algebra.   
   >>>      Mathematical Universe Hypothesis:   
   >>>          The mathematical universe hypothesis, which posits that the   
   >>> universe is fundamentally mathematical, provides a framework for   
   >>> understanding how these theoretical elements can comprise each other.   
   >>>          Within this hypothesis, geometry and algebra are not merely   
   >>> abstract concepts but rather the very fabric of reality.   
   >>>          The "ur-elements" are the fundamental mathematical structures   
   >>> that create the universe.   
   >>>      Platonistic Elements:   
   >>>          The strong technical Platonism you mention is crucial. It   
   >>> suggests that these theoretical elements are not merely mental   
   >>> constructs but rather objective, independent realities.   
   >>>          The elements are real, and the source of reality.   
   >>>   
   >>> Logic, Reason, and the Arrival at This Concept:   
   >>>   
   >>>      Logic and Reason as Tools:   
   >>>          Logic and reason are essential tools for constructing and   
   >>> exploring the concept of a heno-theory.   
   >>>          They allow us to identify the underlying structures that   
   >>> connect seemingly disparate theories.   
   >>>          They help us to navigate the complex relationships between   
   >>> geometry, algebra, and the pre-geometric.   
   >>>      Limits of Logic and Reason:   
   >>>          However, it's important to acknowledge the limitations of logic   
   >>> and reason.   
   >>>          The concept of a heno-theory, particularly when it involves the   
   >>> mathematical universe hypothesis, pushes the boundaries of our current   
   >>> understanding.   
   >>>          It raises questions that may not be fully resolvable through   
   >>> purely logical or rational means.   
   >>>      Intuition and Metaphysical Speculation:   
   >>>          Intuition and metaphysical speculation may play a significant   
   >>> role in our exploration of this concept.   
   >>>          The idea of a primordial "ur-theory" or a mathematical universe   
   >>> may require a leap of imagination beyond the confines of strict logical   
   >>> deduction.   
   >>>          It is a conceptual leap, that may or may not be true.   
   >>>      A Priori and A Posteriori:   
   >>>          A combination of a priori, and a posteriori reasoning is   
   >>> required. A priori reasoning is needed to derive the logical   
   >>> consistancies of the system. A posteriori reasoning is needed to relate   
   >>> the system to the world.   
   >>>   
   >>> In essence, you're proposing a grand synthesis of mathematical and   
   >>> philosophical ideas, a quest for a unified understanding of reality.   
   >>> Logic and reason are essential tools in this quest, but they may need to   
   >>> be supplemented by intuition and metaphysical speculation.   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>> Thanks GG. Beyond referencing Plato, then furthermore the canon of   
   >>> German idealism after Greek idealism, as the schools are so broadly   
   >>> collected, has for Kant a particular comment on "The Sublime" and the   
   >>> "Ding-an-Sich" as with regards to being, and then Hegel in the   
   >>> Wissenschaft der Logik makes a great case for, similarly as to Leibniz'   
   >>> monadology and universals, and Wittgenstein's spark of a platonic   
   >>> treatise in the Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus, and otherwise as of the   
   >>> Tractatus, that mostly the more mature philosophically analytical   
   >>> tradition is actually reflections on that, not the other way around,   
   >>> similarly as to how above it's deduction _first_ and continuity _first_,   
   >>> that deduction and continuity may arrive at, without stipulation, and   
   >>> that "inverse" is a mere deliberation and contemplation itself,   
   >>> eschewing "contradiction" while still supplying "The Principle of   
   >>> Sufficient, i.e. Thorough, Reason".   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>> You've woven together a rich tapestry of philosophical ideas, connecting   
   >>> Greek and German idealism, Kant's sublime and Ding-an-sich, Hegel's   
   >>> logic, Leibniz's monadology, Wittgenstein's Tractatus, and the   
   >>> analytical tradition, all within the context of a deduction-first and   
   >>> continuity-first approach. Let's unpack this complex argument:   
   >>>   
   >>> German Idealism and the Sublime/Ding-an-Sich:   
   >>>   
   >>>      Kant's Influence:   
   >>>          Kant's concept of the "sublime" points to the limits of human   
   >>> understanding in the face of the infinite or overwhelming. It suggests a   
   >>> realm beyond our cognitive grasp, a hint of the "Ding-an-sich"   
   >>> (thing-in-itself).   
   >>>   
   >>> The "Ding-an-sich" represents the ultimate reality, which remains   
   >>> inaccessible to direct experience. This aligns with a sense of a deeper,   
   >>> underlying being that transcends our phenomenal world.   
   >>>   
   >>> Hegel's Logic:   
   >>>   
   >>>      Hegel's "Wissenschaft der Logik" (Science of Logic) attempts to   
   >>> overcome the limitations of Kant's dualism by developing a dialectical   
   >>> system that encompasses both the phenomenal and the noumenal.   
   >>>   
   >>> Hegel's logic, like Leibniz's monadology, seeks to find a unified system   
   >>> that explains the interconnectedness of all things.   
   >>> Hegel's logic is a logic of becoming, and of continuity.   
   >>>   
   >>>      Leibniz's Monadology and Universals:   
   >>>          Leibniz's monadology, with its concept of individual,   
   >>> self-contained "monads" reflecting the entire universe, contributes to   
   >>> the idea of a unified underlying reality.   
   >>>          His theory of universals also suggests a platonic realm of   
   >>> abstract ideas that underlie the physical world.   
   >>>   
   >>> Wittgenstein's Tractatus and the Analytical Tradition:   
   >>>   
   >>>      Tractatus as Platonic Spark:   
   >>>          You're suggesting that Wittgenstein's "Tractatus   
   >>> Logico-Philosophicus," despite its seemingly analytical approach,   
   >>> contains a "platonic spark," a hint of a deeper, underlying logical   
   >>> structure that transcends language.   
   >>>          The Tractatus's emphasis on logical form and the limits of   
   >>> language can be seen as a reflection on the nature of being, similar to   
   >>> the concerns of German idealism.   
   >>>      Analytical Tradition as Reflection:   
   >>>          Your assertion that the analytical tradition is actually a   
   >>> reflection of these earlier idealistic and platonic ideas, rather than   
   >>> the other way around, is a powerful claim.   
   >>>          It suggests that the analytical emphasis on logic and language   
   >>> is ultimately rooted in a deeper metaphysical quest for understanding   
   >>> the nature of reality.   
   >>>      Deduction and Continuity First:   
   >>>          The idea of deduction and continuity being primary aligns with   
   >>> this view. It suggests that these fundamental logical and mathematical   
   >>> principles are not derived from experience but rather precede and   
   >>> underlie it.   
   >>>          That the analytical tradition is attempting to describe the   
   >>> structure that is revealed by deduction, and continuity.   
      
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