XPost: sci.physics.relativity, sci.math   
   From: physfitfreak@gmail.com   
      
   On 4/19/25 8:34 PM, Physfitfreak wrote:   
   > On 4/19/25 8:06 PM, Physfitfreak wrote:   
   >> On 4/19/25 7:39 PM, Physfitfreak wrote:   
   >>> On 4/19/25 5:19 PM, Physfitfreak wrote:   
   >>>> On 4/19/25 2:37 PM, Physfitfreak wrote:   
   >>>>> On 4/19/25 1:59 PM, Physfitfreak wrote:   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> An Iranian more independent and self-centered news outlet (in   
   >>>>>> Telegram) which does not necessarily obey any demands on them by   
   >>>>>> Iran's government, early on, towards the beginning of the talk   
   >>>>>> disclosed that Araghchi and his team had cancelled the talk   
   >>>>>> minutes into its start, and for about 15 minutes or so were   
   >>>>>> preparing to leave the building (Ommani embassy in Italy) and   
   >>>>>> return to Iran.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>> This news piece was not touched on at the end of the 2nd rounds   
   >>>>>> talks by spokesperson of foreign ministry. No other Iranian   
   >>>>>> sources of news also touched on that, either because they didn't   
   >>>>>> have the information, or they followed ministry's directive in   
   >>>>>> keeping it quiet. No news of it in Western outlets that I could   
   >>>>>> see either.   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> In this round of talk, no reporters were allowed in the building.   
   >>>>> Even spokesperson himself wasn't allowed to be there. And I don't   
   >>>>> think anyone among Iran's team texted this out directly to that   
   >>>>> news agency. It'd be absurd to do that. Much more likely, Araghchi   
   >>>>> himself called up other Iran's authorities to ask for permission to   
   >>>>> abort, and it was granted. Then some Iranians in the government   
   >>>>> itself immediately leaked it to that news agency against the wishes   
   >>>>> of the government.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> There's a second route also. Perhaps some Mossad agent among   
   >>>>> Americans' team texted it out to Mossad, and Iran's spies among   
   >>>>> Mossad (plenty of them!) texted it to that news agency and perhaps   
   >>>>> scores of other ones as well, then only the most independent one   
   >>>>> disclosed it in Telegram. I think these two are the only routes   
   >>>>> that the news could take to come out.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> I saw the news piece just minutes after the attempt to abort took   
   >>>>> place! I.e. during those minutes that mission was aborted. This is   
   >>>>> a bit too fast to be normal reaction on either side. I think   
   >>>>> there's more to it than it seems.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> How it was handled _after_ 2nd round was over, was of course just   
   >>>>> correct diplomatic behavior preserving both sides' face. Such nitty   
   >>>>> gritties are washed and cleaned off before news to media is given.   
   >>>>> But the fact that somebody, some side, wanted very badly and   
   >>>>> quickly for it to come out, is the strange and interesting part of   
   >>>>> it :)   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>> Could be that somebody will explain this in the news for a wider   
   >>>>> audience. We'll see.   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>> On the official Iranian news channel whose reporter woman was in   
   >>>> Rome broadcasting live from outside the place of meeting, the only   
   >>>> clue that could point to this event is that she said (live cast)   
   >>>> spokesperson was called inside and despite arrangements made between   
   >>>> them to relay the news to the woman reporter, she was saying he had   
   >>>> gone silent for the past few minutes and is not responding to our   
   >>>> queries. Then she herself concluded that "talks may have started to   
   >>>> cover very serious matters, taking all spokesman's attention." :)   
   >>>> This is the only sign that you could see in Iran's official news.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Anyway, this thing isn't deserving all this attention and I'm   
   >>>> already sick of it. As far as my own view is concerned, as I've said   
   >>>> it multiple times, it doesn't matter how this talk "goes forward" or   
   >>>> even is kept going or not. This whole thing to contact and create a   
   >>>> dialogue with the Americans is inconsequential to Iran because   
   >>>> regardless of the outcome, Iran must and would do exactly what she   
   >>>> should, with or without a talk. There aren't "choices" there for   
   >>>> Iran to think and choose from when Nazis are pressuring her.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> In fact this is also the stance of Pezeshkiyan and Iran's Leader   
   >>>> himself. Both of them have pointed out that this matter of   
   >>>> "negotiation" is one among tens of other tasks that foreign ministry   
   >>>> is involved in and does not absorb any more attention than that, and   
   >>>> some people's tying the events or their decisions and plans to it is   
   >>>> ridiculous.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Talking with Americans is not consequential for Iran, and therefore,   
   >>>> it is not consequential _to_ Iran. End of this crap story.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Talking with Russia is, and talking with China is, and similarly   
   >>>> developing ties with central Asians and Arabs and Indians and   
   >>>> central and south Americans ARE consequential for (and to) Iran.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> USA and its cohorts and to tell you the truth the whole fucking   
   >>>> cro-magnon people is a thing of the past for Iran. It was over   
   >>>> decades ago.   
   >>>>   
   >>>> Here let me one more time quote Raisi on that:   
   >>>>   
   >>>>     "They are the past; we are the future. I repeat, they are the   
   >>>> past, and we are the future."   
   >>>>   
   >>>>                     - Raisi in delivering his speech   
   in UN   
   >>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>>   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>>   
   >>> More bits and pieces of what went on has come out. Same reporter to   
   >>> whom Araghchi had told, "It is moving forward", when reporter asked   
   >>> directly whether negotiations were constructive, Araghchi emphasized   
   >>> that, "The negotiations took place in a constructive _atmosphere_"..   
   >>>   
   >>> So the machinery was there at best as it could be arranged, but as   
   >>> far as results are concerned it is too soon to comment. I.e. nothing   
   >>> is yet done.   
   >>>   
   >>> Next round is one week later in Omman again. I don't know how they   
   >>> came up with the idea of doing it once a week. Who decided that one   
   >>> week of thinking it over and making up the mind is neither too short   
   >>> nor too long? Is there some study that has determined that? Is it   
   >>> what Iran wants, or is it USA's choice? Too long for Trump   
   >>> personally, but what is the norm and where has it come from. What study?   
   >>>   
   >>> In physics, for instance, the period is about one year. You won't   
   >>> 100% understand, and won't integrate it fully with your present   
   >>> knowledge, what you are packing into your brain right now, till a   
   >>> year later. And as you continue packing stuff in it, only what you   
   >>> packed a year earlier will make 100% sense to you and 100% available   
   >>> for you to apply and utilize.   
   >>>   
   >>> But that's physics. How about sensitive negotiations? Did they   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-DOS v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)