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   From: acoustic@panix.com   
      
   In article <8b2b3f51-a81e-49d3-9e49-deb13d6d74a9@googlegroups.com>,   
     wrote:   
   >   
   >As usual you twist the words of others to suit your agenda. Your   
   >original lie was that Hong Kongers never had much freedom, when of   
   >course they have. The sad situation of the "cage dwellers" does not   
   >change the fact that in the past Hong Kong had great freedoms, which the   
   >CCP is of course trying to limit.   
   >   
   >And as usual, you blame the US. Pathetic. You are too self-important to   
   >have a real conversation with.   
      
   You are projecting bmoore!  You are the one who has the agenda and you   
   are the one who twists other posters' words.   
      
   I made the assertion that people of Hong Kong never had much freedom   
   to begin with.  And I continue to maintain that.  Where is the lie?   
      
   I did a follow up to ltlee1 (who happens to be one poster in these   
   newsgroups that you used to aim venom at each time he opened his   
   mouth, until I came along) and wrote:   
      
     I agree.  I was a resident there once.  I left and have yet to   
     return, not even for a visit.  But never say never!:)   
      
     People there never had much of any kind of freedom to begin with,   
     except for the freedom to make some money, the old-fashioned way,   
     after the collapse of the Nationalist government.   
      
   I posted my view.  My view was formed from my very own personal   
   experience.  I intensely felt it throughout the early years of my   
   life.  Where is your evidence of an agenda on my part?   
      
   I remember when I was in school, the most humiliating experience for   
   us was when a classmate of yours loudly condemned you as someone who   
   lived at bunkbed number such and such, which was a worse insult than   
   to be called a hutyie, the term for beggar.   
      
   The idea of the insult is that if you live at such a place, so must   
   your parents.  That was the utmost insult a kid had to endure.   
      
   Living in such a miserable situation with your parents and siblings   
   meant basically hopelessness for you.  When you as a person become so   
   mired in your own struggle for survival, what could possibly be the   
   meaning of any so-called "great freedoms" the National Endowment for   
   Democracy (NED) and its sycophants have in mind for you?   
      
   Do we see our Oscar-by-the_Sea Hong Kong resident and his neighbors   
   take advantage of those "great freedoms" in Hong Kong and exercise   
   them?  I seriously doubt it.   
      
   Those who have no worry about losing their freedom to a 2' by 6' dog   
   cage that they would have to call home would rather spend their time   
   in southern California to see how their horses are doing once in a   
   while or to shop for the latest fashion where a few protesters were   
   found roughing up burgeois mainlanders who had money to come to Hong   
   Kong and blew it away on a high-flying shopping spree.   
      
   Except for a dozen or a few dozens placard waving "great freedoms"   
   suckers, most Hong Kong folks are too pre-occupied with trying to   
   escape from that slippery slope that would pull them faster and faster   
   into one of those metal cage dwellers' addresses.   
      
   So, you don't have to have a metal cage dweller's address right now to   
   feel the deprivation of freedom.  You can feel the oppression of being   
   deprived of basic freedoms, not to mention "great freedoms", when you   
   live everyday in fear of slipping into one of those cages or of your   
   children slipping into those cages.   
      
   The NED and its sycophants love to bandying about the benefit of   
   abstract ideas.  They have a tendency to gloss over the reality and   
   the essentials.  They don't seem to want to recognize the fact that   
   for most people basic freedoms are not the freedom to wave a placard   
   in downtown for an hour and make some noise that signifies no real or   
   meaningful change for the better to their lives and their loved ones.   
      
   The reason, I suspect, is that they have an agenda - the agenda to   
   make the United States the sole superpower of the world.   
      
   Sure, the freedom to make some noise in downtown was _insisted_ upon   
   by the Brits, the colonial master who was leaving.  But just like   
   everything the Brits did to their former colonies, they created   
   opportunities for their ally across the Atlantic to exploit decades   
   later.  Just look at the Middle East, Pakistan, and you can see a   
   similar situation in the post-handover Hong Kong too.   
      
   In my original follow up, I wasn't particularly blaming any party for   
   the miserable situation in Hong Kong except to point out as an insider   
   that there was never much of any freedom for the people of Hong Kong   
   to begin with except the freedom to make some money.  In fact, as far   
   as I know, the absence of meanginful freedom was a well acknowledged   
   fact among us who have lived there for years.  It's an equally well   
   known fact that the abstract freedoms the NED and its sycophants love   
   to preach about were not exactly the kind of thing they would lose   
   their sleep over.  Kids were more or less taught to keep quiet about   
   this kind of things lest that such thoughts would endanger their   
   careers or potentials to get a good job - something absolutely   
   important for the people of Hong Kong to have to survive in their   
   environment.   
      
   Such an attitude actually is not rare.  In America for example, the   
   ethnic Chinese community is well known (to labor organizers, e.g.,) to   
   keep to themselves for fear that they would lose their jobs and hence   
   their livelihood if they speak up, even if they have been directly   
   affected.   
      
   As rst9 has pointed out, the fact that Hong Kong never had much of any   
   kind of freedom ("until about the time of the handover" or something   
   to that effect), not to mention "great freedoms", is actually well   
   documented.   
      
   Only the west's propaganda would have people who have never lived in   
   Hong Kong believe that it has "great freedoms" for its people.  That   
   is sad!   
      
   If Hong Kong had "great freedoms", why would I not want to go back   
   there?   
      
   And finally, Confucius said, "don't give to others what you don't want   
   for yourself!"   
      
   There, I know Hong Kong is an oppressive place, a place a person who   
   yearns for freedom would not want to live in.  So, I want others who   
   do not have the firsthand experience about what life in Hong Kong is   
   like to know that it is an oppressive place that I personally would   
   not want to live in.  And it's not just me.  My siblings, my parents,   
   my cousins, even Amy, my cousin's beautiful wife, has chosen to settle   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)