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   From: ascii@dprk.kp   
      
   17.7.2014 21:30, *skriptis kirjoitti:   
   > Proof 1.   
   > Ukrainian freedom fighters do not posses anti-aircraft missiles that have   
   > range up to 10 000 meters.   
   > Otoh, Kiev junta does..   
   >   
      
   "Freedom fighters" (you damn idiot) do not have planes...   
      
   "No surface-to-air systems are involved in the military operation   
   against separatists in the east, and the plane was out of reach of other   
   Ukrainian air defence forces," the statement from Ukraine's Defence   
   Ministry added   
      
   It's true that manpads don't reach that high... however the plane was   
   crashed so close to Russian border that it's possible it was shot down   
   from Russia... Also I wouldn't consider it out of the question that   
   separatist forces have actual ground to air missile systems, since they   
   seem to have everything else already...   
      
   Also, an Ukrainian SU-25 fighter jet was downed on Monday, likely by   
   Russian missiles or by Russian fighter jets. (Another one was hit by a   
   manpad on Wednesday.)   
      
   Not to mention that Russia has likely been launching rockets from its   
   territory to Ukrainian bases near the border in recent days.   
      
   > Proof 2.   
   > Ukranian freedom fighters, or Russia for that matter gain nothing from this   
   > act, ie had no reason to do it.   
   > Otoh, Kiev junta does.   
      
   It's not the first time that Russia has shot down passenger planes...   
      
   If indeed Ukrainian let the plane fly through their entire airspace but   
   blew it up when it was reaching Russian airspace then that was a cunning   
   plan. But it's not a credible conclusion.   
      
   The plane was shot down either by Russian terrorists or by their   
   military... not that there would be any difference between the two.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)