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   From: skriptis@post.t-com.hr   
      
   "TT"  wrote in message   
   news:0EYxv.49926$SH2.13379@uutiset.elisa.fi...   
   > 18.7.2014 1:14, *skriptis kirjoitti:   
   >>> "Freedom fighters" (you damn idiot) do not have planes...   
   >> Nor did I say they had them, moron.   
   >>   
   >   
   > Look, dimwit, above is relevant for the claim that followed. I repeat:   
   >   
   > "No surface-to-air systems are involved in the military operation against   
   > separatists in the east, and the plane was out of reach of other Ukrainian   
   > air defence forces"   
      
   Don't be silly. surface-to-air systems are not involved as they say, but   
   does it mean therre are no such systems there? They're expecting so called   
   russian invansion for months, and even though they are not using these   
   systems, since federalists obviously don't use planes, you want us to   
   believe they have *nothing* there on the sight to shoot planes?   
   Yeah right...   
   That looks even more stupid in the light of the fact that federalists   
   actually said recently that they would soon have airplanes...taken from   
   ukrainian army.   
   It's  logical to assume that ukrainian army indeed has systems to shoot at   
   planes there...   
      
   I am rightfully sceptical when freedom fighters say that they do not possses   
   system to shoot down planes at 10k height.   
   We can never know for sure how many weapons there, and under whose control.   
      
      
      
      
   > Just ask yourself who have been shooting down planes in Ukraine. There's   
   > your answer to this "puzzle".   
   >   
   >> And I most certainly would consider that bastards who burnt tens of   
   >> people   
   >> alive in Odessa,   
   >   
   > They were not government forces.   
      
   Yes, there were SA troops, which have backing from Kiev junta. Ukraine has   
   no legiimate goverment since the coup. Eastern insurgents are equally   
   representative of "ukraine" just as the puupet goverment in Kiev. Poroshenko   
   as a president is at least somewhat legitimate representative of pro-western   
   Ukraine, but not even that is the whole Ukraine.   
      
   I am just amazed how some accept Yatsenuk or his goverment as a "ukrainian"   
   goverment.   
   Just ask yourself, what happened fisrt? Insurgency in the east, ie people   
   rebeling against legitimate goverment, or coup'd etat in in Kiev?   
      
   People in the east of ukraine, and Russia as well, accepted and respected   
   every demoratic and legitimate ukrainain goverment, be that pro-western of   
   Juschenko, or pro-russian Janukovich. Those who broke down fragile democracy   
   in Ukraine, and brought chaos are the culprits for all this that is   
   happening now.   
   And instead of seeking political dialoge with the east of their own   
   country...they're sending military against their own people.   
   It's sheer stupidity to try to force country with 20+ Russians and   
   pro-Russian people to join NATO-orbit. Of course, they're not that stupid,   
   they know it won't work, but they're not expecting that goal anyway..   
      
      
      
      
      
   >> If so, perfectly legit as per international law. Couple of person IN   
   >> Russia   
   >> were killed in the last days from the rockets coming from Ukraine...   
   >   
   > Yeah, must have been Ukraine who started all this...   
      
   Finally a good point from you.   
      
      
      
   > Do you still believe that "little green men" in Crimea were just self   
   > defence forces as Putin told us?   
   >   
   > Well they were not, they were Russian special forces, confirmed by Putin   
   > himself after the fact. Same with Eastern Ukraine.   
      
   What you fail to see is the fact that once you destroy the fabric of   
   international law, and "fair-play", then you can't complain when others do   
   it too.   
      
      
      
      
      
   > I can see how someone in Russia would be convinced by the propaganda - but   
   > a guy like you living in the West - there's no excuse for such stupidity.   
   > Get a grip.   
   >   
   > And when it comes to demonizing Russia in eyes of Western world - Putin   
   > doesn't need my help for that, he's doing it fine by himself.   
      
   Maybe for someone like Bouchard who knows only for Justin Bieber. I admit   
   vast majority is indeed like that in the west.   
   You are right once again.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)