XPost: uk.politics.misc, alt.politics.british   
   From: andrewrichardwainwright@hotmail.co.uk   
      
   On 30/01/2014 14:11, abelard wrote:   
   > On Thu, 30 Jan 2014 13:58:38 +0000, Andy Wainwright   
   >  wrote:   
   >   
   >   
   >> Not all leftists are for high taxes, in fact some are for cuts.   
   >   
   > in your dreams   
   >   
   >> Like, we could cut the prison population in half.   
   >>   
   >> We could abolish the MOD, GCHQ , MI5, MI6, The Home Office. Let's face   
   >> it the biggest threat to freedom isn't military action from a foreign   
   >> power, it's repression from our government.   
   >   
   > next week, you'll be an anarchist   
   >   
   > Thomas Hobbes   
   >      During the time men live without a common power to keep them all   
   > in awe, they are in that condition which is called war; and such a war   
   > as is of every man against every man.”   
   >   
   >> We could save criminal justice resources through only prosecuting crimes   
   >> with a victim. In fact, abolish criminal law and have all law civil   
   >> only- a defendent, a plaintiff and the sole purpose of the authorities   
   >> is to arbitrate between the two. No Crown Prosecution Service, because   
   >> they'd be no Crown- flog off the crown jewels on ebay to some dickhead   
   >> bling-loving Arabs despots etc and create houses, jobs, hospitals with   
   >> the cash.   
   >   
   > be careful not to believe that cash causes houses   
   >   
   >> As for the state, I could get a constitution protecting human rights,   
   >> wildlife, poverty aleviation and free trade onto a side of A4. Leave   
   >> politicans to do useful stuff like make sure the buses and trains run on   
   >> time etc.   
   >   
   > you want politicians running the trains...eeek...   
   >   
   >   
   >   
      
      
   On the Hobbes issue, the problem is it ignores Karma, which is simply   
   the truth that power is a lesser force than will. What's the point in   
   having loads of wealth and power if you've no friends, and the only   
   people you get to deal with either want favours or to kill you and take   
   your job?   
      
   It's true that "hard power" can bootstrap a civilisation but false that   
   it can maintain it. What's required for that is genuine authority, i.e.   
   submission to wisdom and experience by those in posession of less.   
      
   We need to move to the moral paradigm simply stating we have the right   
   to life, liberty and property, we have also a responsibility not to   
   trespass on the life, liberty or property of others. It's all the morals   
   humans really need. Most sensible laws follow this, stupid ones don't.   
      
   Personally, I am perfectly happy to submit to someone with better ideas   
   and greater experience than myself, don't like being ordered about by   
   thickies who don't have this. Just because these thickies have got   
   so-called authority through "birthright", ill-gotten/stolen wealth or   
   bullying doesn't make them leaders in my eyes. Even if the bastards   
   manage to kill me, they still don't have my consent or authority.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)