From: G6JPG@255soft.uk
On Wed, 11 Nov 2020 at 23:05:32, john
wrote:
>On 11/11/2020 21:36, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>> He's a friend's ancestor.
>> We have marriage certificate 2016-10-11 in Gateshead register
>>office,
>> between Joseph McDonald 28 and Mary Flanigan (yes, spelt like that) 22.
>> (Yes, I know ages are often wrong on MCs, though I can't think of a
>> reason he/they should _deliberately_ lie about either. She was already
>> pregnant.) The MC is of course a copy of an entry in the register book
>> of marriages, but is actually made on the date of the marriage, by the
>> Gateshead registrar, i. e. locally.
>> It says about Joseph:
>> Bachelor;
>> Private Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry (Machineman Engineering
>> Works);
>> residence: Gosforth Park;
>> father: John James McDonald, Labourer in Engineering Works.
>> (Mary was living in Gateshead. For those that don't know the area -
>>it's
>> Newcastle upon Tyne: Gateshead is on the south side of the river,
>> Newcastle on the north, and Gosforth [then, anyway] a little north of
>> Newcastle; Gosforth Park is where the racecourse is. The river was the
>> county boundary - county Durham was south of the river [i. e. Gateshead
>> was in it], Northumberland north [Newcastle and Gosforth]. [It's all
>> "Tyne and Wear" now, since about 1971.])
>> I haven't been able to find his birth (or parents) with any
>> definiteness: ideas welcome!
>> His military records: The MC is the only mention of the KOYLI, but
>> apparently there is a KOYLI stamp on the back (maybe he was given a
>> day's leave to get married and that's their way of accepting it as proof
>> that he did when he got back to barracks?). The MC - see above - does
>> _not_ give his serial number.
>> We have a BC, 1918-8-28 in Gateshead, for a boy James, father Joseph
>> McDonald, mother Mary McDonald formerly Flanigan; with that combination
>> of names, especially the unusual spelling of Flanigan, and the place,
>> I'm pretty sure it's the same couple. But the father's occupation is
>> given as "No 10644 Rifleman Royal Irish Rifles (Stone Mason)".
>> Unusually, the birth was registered on the day of the birth (though by
>> someone "present at the Birth", not either parent).
>> We have a medal card and roll entry for the usual Victory and
>>British
>> medals. The card says
>> MACDONALD R. Ir. Rif Pte 10644
>> Joseph. Wilts R 27805
>> and the roll says
>> 27805 Pte MACDONALD 1st R.Ir.Rif. Class Z.
>>29.5.19
>> Joseph 10644 Pte
>> 6th Wilts R. 27805
>> (I know class Z was those who could be recalled at short notice if
>> Germany did not accept the surrender terms.)
>> So it looks as if he was in _three_ regiments: KOYLI, R.Ir.Rif, and
>> Wiltshire Regiment (Duke of Edinburgh´s), with the first serial number
>> (10644) being used for two of them. And also perhaps recalled to a
>> reserved occupation - though rather different ones!
>> I know various regiments were amalgamated into/absorbed by others,
>>when
>> military action sadly reduced their numbers below viability. Was he just
>> unfortunate to have this happen twice (or, if in reserved work at home,
>> the regiments he was _nominally_ part of unfortunate in that way), or is
>> something else going on? (I can't find the oodles of pages of military
>> odds and ends I've found for some other soldiers; I presume his is one
>> of the "burnt records".)
>> And what's with the varying occupation - from same (-ish) as his
>>dad, to
>> Stone Mason (which I'd have _thought_ takes more than two years)?
>>
>
>There are public trees on Ancestry for Joseph Martin McDonald McDonough
>McDonnell Macdonald, b 4 Dec 1886, Derby, Derbyshire, England. His
Yes, I know about him - but by 1916-10-11, he'd be ten months past his
29th birthday, so why say he was only 28? As I said, I know ages at
marriage are often wrong, but that's usually so both parents are "of
full age".
>marriage and his children agree with your research
>Father John James McDonald McDonnell McDonough (b 1856 Mayo, Ireland d
>1922 Derby)
>Mother Mary O'Malley (b 1860 Mayo d 1904 Derby)
>but I'm not sure any of the links to the identified parents is correct.
>
>There are no census entries for the parents after 1901. In 1901 his
(Assuming they _are_ the parents.) (H)ostler would work with his
profession of "Cart man" on the BC of the Derby birth, too. But he seems
to be alive at the 1916 marriage, and in an Engineering Works.
>father is a "hostler" at a stables in Derby and there is a son Joseph
>RG13 P3217 f181 p30
>
>It looks as though it is all joined by the 1911 England Census Class:
>RG14; Piece: 20883 where there is a Joseph McDonald, fitters labourer
>living in a Lodging House 47 Bridge Gate, Derby, born in Derby
>
He has to get to Newcastle area by 1916 (though sure that isn't
impossible). Fitters Labourer to Machineman I suppose isn't that far a
stretch, though to Stone Mason two years later certainly sounds unusual,
at least.
Roll on the 1921 census - maybe that'll show whether the Newcastle-area
family have Derby roots. (I'd been assuming it would come out next year,
but my friend thinks 2022-1-1 - anyone know?)
Any thoughts on the military career? (And thanks again for looking.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
"Bother," said Pooh, as he tasted the bacon in his sandwich.
--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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