From: john1@s145802280.onlinehome.fr   
      
   On 12/11/2020 03:07, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:   
   > On Wed, 11 Nov 2020 at 23:05:32, john    
   > wrote:   
   >> On 11/11/2020 21:36, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:   
   >>> He's a friend's ancestor.   
   >>>  We have marriage certificate 2016-10-11 in Gateshead register office,   
   >>> between Joseph McDonald 28 and Mary Flanigan (yes, spelt like that) 22.   
   >>> (Yes, I know ages are often wrong on MCs, though I can't think of a   
   >>> reason he/they should _deliberately_ lie about either. She was already   
   >>> pregnant.) The MC is of course a copy of an entry in the register book   
   >>> of marriages, but is actually made on the date of the marriage, by the   
   >>> Gateshead registrar, i. e. locally.   
   >>>  It says about Joseph:   
   >>> Bachelor;   
   >>> Private Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry (Machineman Engineering   
   >>> Works);   
   >>> residence: Gosforth Park;   
   >>> father: John James McDonald, Labourer in Engineering Works.   
   >>>  (Mary was living in Gateshead. For those that don't know the area -    
   >>> it's   
   >>> Newcastle upon Tyne: Gateshead is on the south side of the river,   
   >>> Newcastle on the north, and Gosforth [then, anyway] a little north of   
   >>> Newcastle; Gosforth Park is where the racecourse is. The river was the   
   >>> county boundary - county Durham was south of the river [i. e. Gateshead   
   >>> was in it], Northumberland north [Newcastle and Gosforth]. [It's all   
   >>> "Tyne and Wear" now, since about 1971.])   
   >>>  I haven't been able to find his birth (or parents) with any   
   >>> definiteness: ideas welcome!   
   >>>  His military records: The MC is the only mention of the KOYLI, but   
   >>> apparently there is a KOYLI stamp on the back (maybe he was given a   
   >>> day's leave to get married and that's their way of accepting it as proof   
   >>> that he did when he got back to barracks?). The MC - see above - does   
   >>> _not_ give his serial number.   
   >>>  We have a BC, 1918-8-28 in Gateshead, for a boy James, father Joseph   
   >>> McDonald, mother Mary McDonald formerly Flanigan; with that combination   
   >>> of names, especially the unusual spelling of Flanigan, and the place,   
   >>> I'm pretty sure it's the same couple. But the father's occupation is   
   >>> given as "No 10644 Rifleman Royal Irish Rifles (Stone Mason)".   
   >>> Unusually, the birth was registered on the day of the birth (though by   
   >>> someone "present at the Birth", not either parent).   
   >>>  We have a medal card and roll entry for the usual Victory and British   
   >>> medals. The card says   
   >>>  MACDONALD       R. Ir. Rif      Pte     10644   
   >>> Joseph.         Wilts R                 27805   
   >>>  and the roll says   
   >>>  27805   Pte     MACDONALD       1st R.Ir.Rif.   
   Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  Class Z.    
   >>> 29.5.19   
   >>>                  Joseph          10644 Pte   
   >>>                                  6th Wilts   
   R. 27805   
   >>>  (I know class Z was those who could be recalled at short notice if   
   >>> Germany did not accept the surrender terms.)   
   >>>   So it looks as if he was in _three_ regiments: KOYLI, R.Ir.Rif, and   
   >>> Wiltshire Regiment (Duke of Edinburgh´s), with the first serial number   
   >>> (10644) being used for two of them. And also perhaps recalled to a   
   >>> reserved occupation - though rather different ones!   
   >>>  I know various regiments were amalgamated into/absorbed by others, when   
   >>> military action sadly reduced their numbers below viability. Was he just   
   >>> unfortunate to have this happen twice (or, if in reserved work at home,   
   >>> the regiments he was _nominally_ part of unfortunate in that way), or is   
   >>> something else going on? (I can't find the oodles of pages of military   
   >>> odds and ends I've found for some other soldiers; I presume his is one   
   >>> of the "burnt records".)   
   >>>  And what's with the varying occupation - from same (-ish) as his    
   >>> dad, to   
   >>> Stone Mason (which I'd have _thought_ takes more than two years)?   
   >>>   
   >>   
   >> There are public trees on Ancestry for Joseph Martin McDonald    
   >> McDonough McDonnell Macdonald, b 4 Dec 1886, Derby, Derbyshire,    
   >> England. His   
   >    
   > Yes, I know about him - but by 1916-10-11, he'd be ten months past his   
   > 29th birthday, so why say he was only 28? As I said, I know ages at    
   > marriage are often wrong, but that's usually so both parents are "of    
   > full age".   
   >    
   >> marriage and his children agree with your research   
   >> Father John James McDonald McDonnell McDonough (b 1856 Mayo, Ireland d    
   >> 1922 Derby)   
   >> Mother Mary O'Malley (b 1860 Mayo d 1904 Derby)   
   >> but I'm not sure any of the links to the identified parents is correct.   
   >>   
   >> There are no census entries for the parents after 1901. In 1901 his   
   >    
   > (Assuming they _are_ the parents.) (H)ostler would work with his    
   > profession of "Cart man" on the BC of the Derby birth, too. But he seems    
   > to be alive at the 1916 marriage, and in an Engineering Works.   
   >    
   >> father is a "hostler"  at a stables in Derby and there is a son Joseph    
   >> RG13 P3217 f181 p30   
   >>   
   >> It looks as though it is all joined by the 1911 England Census Class:   
   >> RG14; Piece: 20883 where there is a Joseph McDonald, fitters labourer   
   >> living in a Lodging House 47 Bridge Gate, Derby, born in Derby   
   >>   
   > He has to get to Newcastle area by 1916 (though sure that isn't    
   > impossible). Fitters Labourer to Machineman I suppose isn't that far a   
   > stretch, though to Stone Mason two years later certainly sounds unusual,    
   > at least.   
   >    
   > Roll on the 1921 census - maybe that'll show whether the Newcastle-area    
   > family have Derby roots. (I'd been assuming it would come out next year,    
   > but my friend thinks 2022-1-1 - anyone know?)   
   >    
   > Any thoughts on the military career? (And thanks again for looking.)   
      
   First, can you please stop posting replies interspersed with another    
   reply. It is hard for me (and I suspect others) to follow and sometimes    
   means I miss part of what you have written, especially when there are    
   replies to replies, etc.   
      
   Please just bottom post all your comments/additions in one place.   
      
      
   I think you've identified the wrong military record   
   I think this is the one you are looking for   
   Joseph MacDonald   
   http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D3792575   
   Reference:	WO 372/12/214568   
   Description: Medal card of MacDonald, Joseph   
   Yorkshire Light Infantry 18873 Private   
   Date:	1914-1920   
   the medal card includes a correction for the surname to McDonald   
      
   Name:	Joseph MacDonald   
   Rank:	Pte   
   Record Type:	Disability   
   Residence Place:	Wakefield   
   Military Service Region:	North East, England   
   Service Number:	18873   
   Corps, Regiment or Unit:	King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry   
   Service Branch:	Military (Army)   
   Title:	WWI Pension Record Cards and Ledgers   
      
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