XPost: soc.culture.korean, misc.education   
   From: junkmail@moreira.mv.com   
      
   Said  uctt@soda.csua.berkeley.edu (Daniel Paik) :   
      
   >you learn a lot of stuff   
   >in school but you are also forced to learn a lot of crap that you don't care   
   to know.   
   >i've never used the chinese remainder theorem or the turing machine or most   
   of the   
   >stuff i had to learn in computer science theory classes.   
      
   There's NOTHING you learn in a computer science class that you cannot   
   use to make it into a long term source of money. For example, the   
   Chinese Remainder theorem plays a relevant role in encription and in   
   security: and every once in a while you find RSA advertising a job at   
   monster.com, and they do pay pretty decent bucks.   
      
   Turing machines tell you what can be done and what cannot; what   
   terminates and what doesn't; they tell you, for example, the   
   difference between safety and liveness properties of an OS, which is a   
   cornerstone of understanding how big time multiprocessing and   
   multitasking synchronization works - and if you're good at it, every   
   corporation in the planet's going to be chasing you to join them.   
   Turing Machines theory is like the foundations of your house: nobody's   
   ever going to see them, everyone takes it for granted, but if you   
   don't grok it you cannot call yourself a computer science major,   
   because your foundations are weak and your professional life is going   
   to show it.   
      
   So, it's all relative, no ? The Chinese Remainder Theorem, or Turing   
   Machines, they're not crap, it's just that you have decided to label   
   them as "crap", and in doing that, you have removed yourself from   
   areas where they could help you make a living.   
      
   It's not the school, it's YOU. It's a personal choice to deemphasize   
   something you learn at school. But you know what, your teacher cannot   
   make those choices for you, nor can he or she make choices for others   
   based on what you think. And your teacher knows where those things fit   
   in the global scene of computer science, hence the school demands that   
   this and other things are taught.   
      
   >as a result?  i did poorly in school.  my gpa was crap and i did basically   
   just enough   
   >to graduate.   
   >   
   >but when i went into the work force?  i did fine and have been doing fine.    
   my career   
   >is ok too (no problems moving up).   
      
   A lot of people move up allright in the computer business even without   
   the need to go to college, or after having earned some degree that has   
   nothing whatsoever to do with computers. Some of my colleagues have   
   been majors in music, tourism, art, mathematics, physics, business,   
   just to mention a few. Meaning, maybe you would have been better off   
   by avoiding a computer science course all together.   
      
   Because a computer science course isn't there to build programmers, IT   
   specialists, systems analysts, or business people. A computer science   
   course is there to channel people into COMPUTER SCIENCE: the stuff   
   that DESIGNS computers, the stuff that CREATES new software. You don't   
   need to know the Chinese Remainder Theorem if you're going to use a   
   web browser, but you certainly need to know it if you're going to work   
   in the development of the security component of that browser.   
      
   Therefore, it's not that the course is crap, it's that maybe you have   
   decided to misuse the course - and in doing so, you have chosen a   
   career path that probably doesn't need that course anyway. In a   
   nutshell, maybe you wasted four years of your life doing something you   
   didn't need to do.   
      
   Computer Science is about the mathematics of programming. If you're   
   not going to work with something that needs knowledge of that   
   mathematics, you don't need a computer science course ! Because   
   outside computer science, programming is a technicians job - anyone   
   can do it, no need for a college degree.   
      
   >the problem with me was never a lack of intellect, it was always a lack of   
   motivation.   
   >i still only work 9-5 and i don't love going to work every morning, but i do   
   what i   
   >need to do at work to get everything done and do a good job to earn praise.   
   >   
   >so think of it this way...suck it up, graduate, and you'll never have to go   
   back to   
   >school again.  that's what i told myself and i never stepped foot in a   
   classroom   
   >again since 1995.  my friends and peers ask me if i would ever go back to   
   school for a   
   >masters or whatever...and i always say "no way".   
      
   I would do it very differently. I would find something I like to do,   
   and go do it. Whatever it is: art, music, sport, computer programming,   
   engineering, business, whatever. But then, it must be no-holds-barred   
   commitment: what I see in that guy's post is lack of personal   
   commitment, with all the usual consequences. It's not that the   
   environment is rotten hence our comitment is lax and our attitude   
   sucks: it's precisely the other way around, BECAUSE our attitude   
   sucks, BECAUSE our commitment is lax, the environment looks rotten.   
   And, here's a golden principle for you guys,   
      
   ALL ONE NEEDS TO CHANGE THE LOOKS OF AN ENVIRONMENT IS TO CHANGE ONE'S   
   PERSONAL ATTITUDE TOWARDS IT.   
      
   That's a universal principle. Apply it, and things work.   
      
   And look around yourself, somebody else will have learned the Chinese   
   Remainder Theorem and will be working for RSA or for Microsoft doing   
   security software, someone will have learned Turing Machines well and   
   will have ended up designing operating systems or writing portions of   
   the msvc.net compilers. Someone will have learned finite state   
   machines well and will be making big bucks designing chips. Someone   
   will have learned pushdown automata well and will be earning a big   
   salary designing compilers. Someone will have aced through that   
   Algorithms course and is now a guru writing scientific software for   
   some government or private research lab.   
      
   It is, what do you know, an issue of personal attitude. Like pilots   
   say, your attitude defines your altitude.   
      
   >i graduated with barely above a 2.0 in upper division in my major...the   
   minimum needed   
   >to graduate.  C- is a 1.7 but still a passing grade.  i'll put it this way,   
   going into my   
   >last class for my major...all of my grades were C+, C, or C- (never even got   
   higher   
   >than a C+).  problem is that i had 1 C- more than C+ so i needed a C+ to get   
   exactly a   
   >2.0 and graduate.  i worked my ass off that last semester (never worked that   
   hard in   
   >school in my life) and i got an A-.  graduated, made millions (well maybe not   
   quite),   
   >boughts cars, houses, sail boats, etc.   
      
   You don't need a college degree to make money - if that's what you're   
   looking for, you took the wrong train and maybe you wasted four years   
   of your life in a search for the holy grail. That's not what computer   
   science courses are there for ! For example, the builder who recently   
   added a room to my house makes well more money than I do, and yet he's   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
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