XPost: alt.politics.europe, soc.culture.europe, talk.politics.european-union   
   XPost: alt.fan.countries.russia   
   From: Intelligent@savetheworldmsn.com   
      
   Russia's not bent on reconquering it's old empire.  Russia is merely defending   
   its   
   national security.  Russia would be fools to let NATO into the Ukraine.  The   
   Ukraine is practically the only way to invade Russia.  You wouldn't let Russia   
   have troops in Mexico would you?  If Russia was attempting to have troops in   
   Mexico, you would probably invade Mexico.  Right?   
      
   This is the ONLY reason Russia has invaded the Ukraine.   
      
   All you are going to do, is bomb the Ukraine to shit, squander our equity in   
   the   
   tens or hundreds of billions - real money spent, and kill thousands of   
   Russians.   
   You are not going to win, you are not going to defeat Russia, anymore than   
   Russia   
   is going to defeat the USA in Mexico.  NATO will never be in the Ukraine, and   
   you   
   are threatening, and even destroying Ukrainian national security with your NATO   
   plan, because Russia, is not going to stop at the Dnieper River, Russia is   
   going   
   to overthrow the Ukraine.  Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but within the   
   next ten to twenty years.  It will be a long long war, but that is only   
   because of   
   you and your policies.   
      
   If you merely say NATO will not be in the Ukraine today, Russia will be gone!   
      
   Also, as soon as you begin to put NATO in Finland, Russia will attack Finland.   
   How   
   do I know?  Because Russia attacked Finland in World War II, before Russia was   
   attacked by Hitler, and it is not a big deal to it to do it.  Furthermore, as   
   to   
   the River, the Nazis were on one side of the river, and then they were on the   
   other side of the river.  I'm sure the Russians are well aware of this, and the   
   Ukraine is going to be totally taken over eventually, if NATO does not relent.   
   And   
   this is an awful solution, as the Ukraine should join the E.U.   
      
   If your sanctions policies on Russia do work, you will antagonize Russia, to go   
   beyond its National Security interests, to invade countries which are   
   obstructing   
   trade with it, or refusing to trade with it.  This is exactly what happened to   
   start World War I.   
      
   You can say that Russia is bent on reconquering it's old empire, but nothing   
   could   
   be further from the truth.  You have crossed Russia's lines, not the other way   
   around.  You are the madmen, not the other way around.  Apparently you don't   
   understand, the balance of power, brinkmanship, mutually assured destruction,   
   and   
   realpolitik.  You make it sound as if we are dealing with a nuclear armed   
   Germany   
   in World War II.  We are dealing with a country as strong as a nuclear armed   
   Germany in World War II, but it is not run by madmen, but by men friendly to   
   the   
   interests of reasonable Americans, and hostile to the insane interests of   
   madmen.   
      
   I guess you expect Russia to give up all its national security interests.  It's   
   like expecting the USA to let Mexico have Russian troops stationed in it.    
   Only a   
   madman would allow that.  We will not let any foreign powers into the Western   
   Hemisphere, including Spain, except the Dutch, the French, and the English.   
      
   We bombed Grenada, we threatened to bomb Cuba, and we would invade Mexico or   
   Venezuela if it was attempting to establish foreign arms in our hemisphere.    
   You   
   want to put NATO 500, 500! miles from Moscow, and Russia has more nuclear arms   
   than you.  This insanity threatens us all, and the whole human race.   
      
      
   What's the big idea; to bully Russia?  Do you really think bullying Russia is   
   possible?  It hardly works with North Korea or Iran!, unless you have someone   
   like   
   Donald Trump playing carrot to Kim Jung Un, as well as stick; before his   
   historic   
   handshake, he previously had said "Rocket Man, if we are forced to defend   
   ourselves, we will destroy you."   
      
   Bullying never worked with Iraq, you had to invade.  What's the big idea?  I   
   say,   
   make the Russians happy, and do what they want, within the bounds of all   
   reason.   
      
   Like we could just Nuke Russia without being nuked?  Insanity.  There's no   
   respect   
   to Russia.  And what do we want?  You should all lead a little, or a lot, more   
   -   
   within the bounds of all reason, and see if they follow.  Tell them what to do.   
   "Tear down that wall," worked!  They don't want to mess with us either.  You   
   have   
   to see how to be within the context of that mentality, and get your way, within   
   the bounds of all reason.   
      
   They know they're playing with fire, to go against reason.  They just lost   
   5,000   
   men because WE'RE going against reason.  It's no good idea for us to be playing   
   with fire.  What is saving us is that they aren't madmen, but are tempered at   
   the   
   moment; – yet we're obstinate.   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)