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   soc.culture.russian      More than just vodka and shirtless Putin      98,335 messages   

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   Message 98,034 of 98,335   
   Raskolynikov to All   
   Faith vs. Religion (1/2)   
   28 Dec 23 05:42:18   
   
   From: andronicus451@gmail.com   
      
   But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst;   
   but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing   
   up into everlasting life. (John 4:14)   
      
   * * *   
      
   In the beginning of ministry of the Lord Jesus Christ, the requirement was   
   this personal relationship with Jesus. Jesus said “God gave His   
   only-begotten son, so that none who believeth in him should perish but have   
   everlasting life.” (John 3:16).   
      
   In the early church, believers were lead by direct disciples of Jesus, or by   
   disciples of those disciples, and their ministry was accompanied with signs   
   and miracles confirming their ministry (Romans 15:18-19).   
      
   This early church suffered persecution both by the elders of Judea and   
   throughout the Roman Empire.   
      
   At some point, it became convenient to stop this persecution. Even more, an   
   emperor was willing to make Christianity the official and only recognised   
   religion of the Empire. This must have been a good thing?   
      
   - the downside of this was that not 100.0% of the citizens and slaves in the   
   Empire were convinced that they should convert to the new religion – note,   
   not everyone believed, so the “faith in Jesus” requirement was dropped to   
   merely becoming a    
   member of “the only apostolic church of Christ”.   
   - now, not everyone was willing to abandon the “pagan” religions, so there   
   had to be some evil done for the greater good: destroying the temples or   
   converting them to churches, persecution and murder of “pagan” priesthood   
   - in a convenient was, the pagan gods are preserved as patron saints (so for   
   example Bacchus became St. Martin)   
   - as 100% of the population was included in the church, not everybody believed   
   and had “spring of living water” in themselves: the water was now   
   delivered in the canister called “the holy sacrament of faith”.   
   - believers are no longer worthy to have personal relationship with Jesus,   
   salvation by faith in Jesus and the grace of God is replaced with the   
   intercession of the Lady and saints, with the ministering of the church   
   sacraments   
   - later the requirement of faith was removed, so the canister without water   
   could also quench thirst (salvation by the membership in the Church and by the   
   seven sacraments)   
   - the Empire needed soldiers, so 1 John 3:15 “no murderer has the eternal   
   life abiding in him” was relaxed to the permission to killing in a just war   
   or in a “holy war” (Crusades)   
   - as the Empire was holy, all its wars were just and killing in them   
   permissible   
   - “blessed swords” in the form of the cross as apposed to “cursed sabres   
   in the form of the crescent Moon”, ater also blessed guns and cannons   
   - fighting and dying on the side of Crusaders and the holy church brings man   
   directly to Heaven with absolution of all sins, the slain and the opposite   
   armies are also damned and sent to Hell   
   - later, those who did not want to kill for the holy Empire are being   
   persecuted as they ought to have submitted to the Empire as there is no   
   authority except that from God (Romans 13:1)   
   - now only a proxy of faith is required to actually believe, the rest get   
   saved by the membership in the church, sacraments and faith of some proxy   
   (i.e. priest or “godfather”)   
   - requirement of seven sacraments was dropped to two, infant baptism and   
   church burial, in the meantime the believers can live as they want (they will   
   repent in the Purgatory)   
   - eventually, sins of the souls in the Purgatory can be forgiven by a donation   
   of money to the church (indulgences), faith in the church and Pope’s   
   absolution is all there is required   
   - priest no longer has to believe in God or examine faith and conscience (2   
   Corinthians 13:5), only in the holy church   
   - “holy inquisition” persecutes the heresies in believing or science,   
   using “whatever means necessary” (murder and torture to extract   
   confessions) to force them to recant (Cathars, Giordano Bruno, Galileo Galilei)   
   - everything is permissible for the purpose of spreading the power of the   
   church and destroying the “enemies of the church”, even that the holy   
   inquisition would both sell to Satan to better torture and extract confessions   
   and be holy inquisiton at    
   the same time, with the heretics witnessing against themselves (prototype of   
   the mounted trials?)   
   - any reformation, revival of faith and/or carismatic movement is extinguished   
   as danger or heresy and excommunicated or subject to the holy inquisition   
   - the holy apostolic church and the Pope proclaimed “infallible” (Romans   
   3:23 says “not one is righteous, for all have sinned and fell short of the   
   glory of God”,  1 Corinthians 13:9-10 “preaching is incomplete”)   
   - “kill them all and let God sort them out” (Arnaud Amalric before the   
   genocide on Albigengs – Cathars, 1209-1229 AD, 200,000-1,000,000 burned and   
   murdered), massacre and genocide on Hugenots (1572 AD, 800,000-900,000)   
   - the believers are no longer to see the Holy Bible in their language, they   
   hear only illegible Latin on mass, translators to the language of the commons   
   are burned (William Tyndale, 1536 AD, strangulation and burning at stake)   
   - Jesus and faith are no longer required, as the grace of Lady and the   
   intercession of saints suffice   
   - reformists and revivalists are “damned and excommunicated” (Martin   
   Luther 1521 AD, Jean Calvin), offenders like paedophiles are being rotated   
   until the secular authorities made it impossible   
   - black sacraments for the enemies of the church so they would be damned and   
   never go to Heaven or Paradise   
      
   AUTHORITY OF THE SCRIPTURE   
      
   Examining each believer’s conscience:   
      
   2 Corinthians 13:5   
   Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye   
   not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?    
      
   Salvation by faith in One God of both Jews and Gentiles through the sacrifice   
   of the Lamb of God on the cross of Calvary (Golgotha):   
      
   John 3:16   
   For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever   
   believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.   
      
   Romans 3:27-30   
   27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by   
   the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith   
   without the deeds of the law. 29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not   
   also of the Gentiles? Yes,   
    of the Gentiles also: 30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the   
   circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.    
      
   1 Timothy 2:5-6   
      
   [continued in next message]   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)   

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