>>> Smile, they are known mostly from their writings, which you can read in   
   >>> translation online if you wish.   
   >>   
   >> Only the ones that date to the supposed time of a church founder,   
   >> please.   
   >>   
   >> Oops.   
      
   The above escapes me, can you expand?  How could the early church   
   fathers preceed the founding of the church, if that is your point?   
      
   The first of them were born in the 1st century.  One around 35 AD and died   
   before the end of the century.   
      
   This is why they are good non-NT sources to crosscheck the content of NT   
   figures and issues of faith and practice at the very beginning..   
      
   --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05   
    * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)